R J Zimmerman – Navigating Sobriety & Mental Health

Thanks for joining us today for the You World Order Podcast showcase. I'm your host Kasey Lian, and with me today I'm really excited about this conversation is RJ Zimmerman. He is certified coach, he's a podcast host also and he's owner of Untapped Keg. Really good stuff coming, guys.

Nice to meet you, RJ.

Nice to meet you, too, Kasey. I appreciate you having me on.

I'm so excited of finding out what your story is and what you're.

doing why don't you just take the platform and it's this is all about you. So tell us what you're doing and where you came from.

Awesome. I appreciate it. So I am very close to 10 years without drinking, sober. alcohol-free whatever vocabulary or vernacular that people want to use because that is something that is unique to yourself. What do you feel Comfortable

talking about and so I guess to start my journey. Really it's about three years ago started a podcast with my brother-in-law that was about sobriety. It morphed into sobriety and mental health. After a little bit over a year, I took it over by myself.

And I was trying to find a way that I could provide a service to people because the podcast started as.

Letting people know they're not alone.

And it really grew, especially as people started to resonate with the podcast and reach out. And we had this dedicated community of people who would talk and things. And it became about sobriety and mental health. And at that point, I really started to hear people's stories and find myself in them.

And then that led me on a self discovery journey and really understanding myself through mental health, understanding myself through.

Everything that I had been through in my life up to that point.

And I was looking for a way to be able to provide a service for others and make.

You know, talking about, not drinking, talking about, you know, sobriety, mental health too. As far as men go and mental health and the challenges that are there just to get through to people so that when they hear mental health, they don't just turn.

Off and I just happened to hear an episode of this naked Mind never read the book, didn't even know about it till a few weeks prior. And they talked about having a coaching course and I'd looked into coaching prior to that, but I didn't really see the path. So I sat in on it and I everything that I heard.

Were like they were words coming right out of my mouth and I was like, OK.

This is a sign that I need to follow this path and so last November I enrolled in their coaching course, which is a six months and then you have to.

Take a test and everything gets certified and it was. It was really amazing what they had in there. It was awesome how it provided me with words and an understanding of things that I did naturally. And so in June I became a this naked mind certified coach.

And with that, I haven't. It's a life coach and then I have an understanding of substances and alcohol, but I'm not a sobriety coach. I'm not a recovery coach and thinking about where the most important part of my journey.

It was.

It was at six years after I stopped drinking. That was really the most important part of my journey. And so when people talk to me, we talk about self discovery. We talk about going inside and learning about yourself and answering the question of who am I.

Who am I really? If I'm not identifying with my work? If I'm not identifying as a husband, if I'm not identifying as a father?

Who is RJ and I couldn't answer that.

And so when I started this self discovery, I had people that.

Hit me up that I had talked to before and.

They're like, hey, I'm really interested in this. Could you build a course and so?

I'm in the process of recording that and I do have a course that is along with my one-on-one coaching and it's really it's just a path for people to begin their self discovery journey and it's with one-on-one coaching and weekly content that it provides a guide.

And I can walk with them.

And it's so that they know that they are seen without judgment so that they can go and show the world who they are.

And that's really what it's about and that's what I found through the podcast I found through coaching is that.

Giving people permission to be themselves and not have to feel like they have to live the life they were told they should live. If we live life this way, it's going to bring happiness.

And I know that wasn't the case for me and it's not the case for a lot of people.

I love that and I love how.

In these times, people are taking.

Their life experiences, whether positive, whether negative, whatever, have you, and putting them forth and giving.

Something to talk about, right? Because a lot.

Of these things and these struggles.

I find especially we say with sobriety or other portions of real life, marriage kids, relationships with parents, relationships with coworker, I mean the list can be endless, right?

How to handle all of those things, and it's really comforting to know that you're creating something from your life experiences, so it's not just a piece of.

Paper that you.

Got because you attended an institution, it's something that you lived through. You learn from, you conquered, and then you said how I want to use.

This to help other people.

I really, really love that.

Yeah, and.

The best encapsulation of that is actually someone I met through the podcast. He goes by mindset by Dave. He has a Twitch stream, it's about mental health. He's actually works for the he's in Britain, the government mental health agency over there. I can't remember what it's called, but he goes. So he goes by mindset by Dave and he calls himself a.

Lived experienced educator.

And I was like, that is brilliant. I'm taking that and I'm always going to give you credit.

For it probably.

No, it's good. It's good because I think.

It it's.

Comforting from somewhere on the on the other end, listening to you, it's comforting to know someone went through something so they have experience in that. That's not just and not to say that any practitioner that went through an institution or went through their education, you know, isn't some, won't be somehow successful in helping.

But it's kind of nice to know because we tend to feel like we're, we're alone in what we're struggling with. We tend to feel like we're the only ones. So I find that very admirable that you're taking your struggles and you're using that to try.

And help other people.

I appreciate that and that's something that I took when I was in the depths of this void, and this darkness inside, and I honestly didn't know what was going on inside because I had no understanding of really any of it.

I took it as a point of pride that I was alone, that nobody understood, that nobody felt this deeply about it and.

When I decided that, well, it was, it was a process. It wasn't just like I decided. And then boom, it was identifying different.

Parts inside of myself that I didn't have an understanding of.

And then as I was understanding those, it led to more understanding of myself. So at 33, I got diagnosed with ADHD.

Wasn't an excuse for how I went through life before that. It's not an excuse now, but it does explain how my brain works and when you take someone with ADHD and you try to put them into the world, how people say you should be and how you should live. It builds up a lot of shame because why isn't this easy for me? Like it's easy for other people.

Why can't I get this like these other people can?

Why? You know, there's so many. Why's and you're punishing yourself because you see other people doing things.

And then on the other side, you have to make everything look easy.

Because people are leaning on you because that's what you were taught. You can't show anything other than really anger growing up from society. It doesn't even matter parents.

And so being diagnosed with ADHD really took.

A weight off my shoulders and especially when I started to talk to other people with ADHD and learn that it's not just the Hyper Boy syndrome.

Deeper than that, the fact that if things pile up in my house and I know I have to clean.

But all I can do is sit on the couch and I literally cannot move my legs to go do what I need. Know I need to do.

That is a symptom, right? And so I can start to take myself.

And place it into my life and live my life around myself rather than trying to take myself and be like, OK, let's put it in this cookie cutter version of life. And with that deeper understanding, it just provides a guide that you can.

Give yourself understanding that you're human. Give yourself compassion that not everything's going to be perfect and not everything is going to work the way that you think it should work.

And you can try to.

Do something a little bit different.

And doing something different it.

It is not easy. It is so hard, especially when you've been doing it that way for 30 plus you.

I got medicated 2 years after being diagnosed with ADHD with a stimulant.

We want the non stimulant route for as long as we could because I was worried about.

How I handled alcohol and stimulants can be addictive, right? But they're not for people with ADHD, it's different. And so the first day I was on a stimulant.

My whole world changed because I was like I've been living.

30 yards behind the starting line my entire life. That's why I'm so tired at night. No wonder no wonder why I I've been fighting so much just to get to that place and.

Having that understanding led me to.

Learning what my attachment style is learning.

More about myself, where some of my sticking points are some of my traumas, and then I can take that to therapy. I can take that to coaches that I've had in my life. I can understand where my low self worth, my low self-confidence, my low self esteem comes from.

And when you learn that.

Wow, OK, that is.

Understanding where you're starting from.

Is a massive weight because you don't you no longer think that you're starting at the same point as that person. Now you know where you yourself are starting.

And so let's work from here. Rather than working from a place that you really aren't starting from.

It's so interesting and.

You're so right and I think.

It's nature. I feel like it's like human nature, whether you're a man or a woman. Now, obviously I can talk on the woman side of it. Uh, because I think, you know, males and females kind of deal with things differently, obviously, right. And we tend to kind of push everything down and not deal with things.

And then when you get to a point like you.

Were describing like you know, had a condition that you weren't aware of, right? So like, you would probably sit on the couch and not be able to move your legs knowing you had all these things to do and say the.

Heck is wrong.

With you like, why? And then we default to what society would kind of label us right as.

Lazy as new for good, you know. Don't want to help or you know, and all these things so.

Then we think that.

Must be it right, but I think.

It's truly important what you're doing.

On a on a broad level that.

Of people just accepting that, OK, maybe there's maybe there's a problem here and it's OK to admit that there is.

And you know, and then then then taking the steps to, you know, to rectify that in your case, obviously you know you had to get medication for that, you know, going the sober, you know route for you also helped you obviously.

But it's just opening that awareness, I think is so important.

Do would you agree with that I.

Oh, absolutely. And that's where I come at it from. You're human, right? Because I do think there's so much.

Would think so.

That is parallel obviously to being a man or a woman like.

We're all human and our brains.

Tend to fall into where this is. Not everybody. Everybody's unique. Right. So you all everyone has their unique path. It just so happens that.

They tend to walk alongside one another, and really, that's where sobriety and mental health like bridging that.

Hearing my friends battle with deep depression for a lot of his life was exactly the same thing I experienced with me with alcohol.

When I had the understanding that I'm going to have to stop drinking, I ended up not doing a or anything. I was just I was so stubborn and this is thank you ADHD for hyper focusing on being stubborn and not drinking anymore. But I was so stubborn that I was just like no, I'm done because I want something different in my life.

And so that allowed me to.

Not drink and it did. Doesn't mean I didn't have cravings and I wasn't tempted. I just didn't do a traditional path that a lot of people do.

And I was OK with it because I made it for the decision that I made it.

I didn't make it because I was forced to and that is where that acceptance comes of us being human is. You're not making any of these changes, you're not.

I mean.

Honestly, any of this because of you're being forced to. You're doing it because you understand you're human and that we all.

Could use some help walking straight sometimes help you know being supported in times that are tough, honestly being propped up when things are great because a lot.

One of us.

We don't like to celebrate ourselves. We don't like to celebrate the good things. We like to say. Yeah, this is how it's supposed to be. And then downplay it and move on. And that was me too. Like when I say that I could not name things that were going on inside of myself.

I seriously had no idea. I started off the only emotions that I knew were anger.

And laughing, my inner critic was worse than a critic. It was, you know, that abusive, abusive parent that is screams and yells and you're never going to be good enough. And that's not how my parents were. But that's the how my inner critic was.

And so.

Understanding that that sure, nobody's going to be harder on myself than myself.

But I'm also never going to help myself or be a guide for myself or celebrate myself when I have these accomplishments that should be celebrated. And so moving from a place of being.

The hardest?

Biggest judgmental person on myself to now just being like, OK.

Honestly, it is going to a.

We could have done better with that.

Why did we think that that was a good idea? That was not a good idea. Next time, let's do different. We need to put our head down and get this done right now.

And not be like, well, I don't want to do this right now, so I'm not going to and also not going to the other side of.

Why do you not want to do this? How lazy are you? Just you know, like instead of. No. We're gonna fight through this. And then afterwards, let's have some ice cream. Let's have some candy. Let's play some video games. But we need to finish this now because it needs to get.

Done now and.

With that understanding that self talk.

All of these have really added up to.

Me going through what should have been the worst year of my life and what it ended up being was the best year of my life.

And I mean, I probably buried the lead here, but I went through divorce that I didn't want to go through had to split time with my kids. That was really hard going through a very difficult relationship with my parents and my brother and sister.

And then I moved all the way across the country, had no friends.

Didn't know. Like didn't found a job. That was a 50% pay cut so that I could work around the schedule with my kids that I now only got to see half the time.

A lot of things like that.

Added up. It was a lot of endings in my life and I had a really great job where I was in Wisconsin.

And now I'm 50% pay cut in a job that I'm not a big fan of, you know, in Virginia and it's.

It really what could have been easily.

The darkest period of my life, which it really was.

But I didn't take it and just.

Settle with it being the darkest period of my life.

I made it into.

This is actually how I want to live my life.

Going forward and.

If this doesn't fit into society's box.

OK.

Yeah, if it's in your box.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I think we tend to do that.

As humans.

We're always trying to.

Somehow live up to other people's standards, and that's an enormous amount of pressure, I believe on our insides, our minds and on our bodies. And we do that to ourselves, you know, and you know some people.

You know.

Might use alcohol as an escape for that, obviously, and they're, you know, or different things. You know, whether whatever type of addiction you know kind of takes your mind off of the. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I was going to say it could be like anything when you drown yourself in.

Oh yeah.

Even work.

Something to avoid.

Something else that's going on and then in some cases you don't even realize it, right? So you don't even realize it's happening.

Before it's like built up and built up and built up. So do you find like a lot of your clients that are maybe struggling with you know maybe some depression issues or any sort of Mozilla issues, you know, anxiousness or depression and things like?

That do you find more?

Are correlated with the sobriety.

Or not.

I would say that.

How we have looked at addiction and sobriety and escapism.

That is the cause of all of these symptoms.

But what when you start talking to people when you start looking at the new research that's coming out?

No, it's addiction. Escapism, that is actually a symptom of something else and.

There's a saying if you don't. If you haven't seen it, look up Yohan Harry. He did a Ted talk about everything we know about addiction is wrong and he talks about the opposite of addiction is actually connection.

And I took that one step further and the opposite of that is actually self connection.

Because generally when we're trying to escape, especially from life, and I'm not talking about normal coping mechanisms like you watch TV for a couple hours a day or a day here and there, you do something that takes your mind off of everything that's healthy. That's what you should be doing. But when it is longer than.

Day when it becomes weeks and months and the only thing you're looking forward to is whatever that reward is that takes you away from life.

That is, when it becomes a problem, and that's because we're doing something that honestly, it's not in alignment with ourselves like we're betraying ourselves.

Little by little, we're living somebody else's life.

And we think if we get this thing, it's going to make everything better.

But that's not how it actually works, and so you can start to rebuild with these, you know, small promises. So for myself, like self-care, self-care isn't necessarily going getting a massage or a Manny petty. Or for me it's brushing my teeth twice a day. It's not letting the dishes sit in the sink for more than 24.

Having a level of organization, even though at my core it drives me crazy that I have to be organized and it also is stop being so hard on myself if I have a pile of stuff that I haven't gotten to in a few weeks because.

That's just going to happen. And so if I don't have that understanding with myself.

Then I'm going to get mad and it's going to Snowball and I'm going to go back into this hypercritical self talk and this self loathing.

It's just not going to be fun to live even when I'm making meeting my goals. Even when I have.

The quote UN quote American Dream and everything is great in my life.

But inside I still feel completely disconnected from everything.

And when I wake up, all I want to do is whatever I have to just to get back to sleep and going through life and that autopilot.

With the.

Depression and anxiety and those things that come with sobriety, that come with the escapism.

When we take away that escapism, you're with your feelings. You're with your emotions. You're with the hard things in life.

And that absolutely can lead to depression and heightened anxiety and increased shame about so much stuff. And.

You know, just a level of disconnect that could continue.

And when you realize that.

This is probably from something you know a few years ago that I just never dealt with because emotions.

We'll come back.

Whether we want them to or not, and they might show up when you're parenting your child, they might show up in an argument with a partner or a friend.

And if you still push them away.

It's just going to build up for later all of that at one time. Let's try to work on it a little bit at a time.

I love that. I love the conversations that I have on this podcast because it.

It causes me to obviously to think right and I think about.

Yes, it's always good to change your focus in the moment if you're feeling a stress, whatever that is.

But like you said, it's when it becomes a repetitive act where it becomes an issue because then you're not dealing right then you're not. Then you're just kind of like shutting it out.

And putting it kind of pushing it down and I'm not going to deal. So I'm going to escape, I'm going to do this. And I think as a society, we tend to be like.

I feel like self-care is dealing with the things that affect us, not avoiding them.

Yes, absolutely.

Because you are right, it's going to come out. I remember distinctly. I also, you know, I also went through a divorce. I also went through being a single mom and along with those came.

You know, stresses in my life and it and it's listeners, it's the truth. It will come out and it came out.

You know, in the way that I was acting with my children sometimes and then, you know, and I wasn't equipped at that, that time to connect the two, that the stress is in the other parts of my life which I was trying to avoid and think I'm protecting.

My children.

By sheltering them from this and sheltering myself and protecting myself and doing air quotes, listeners air quotes.

Yes, absolutely.

Protecting everybody.

Meanwhile, I was internalizing it all, and then it was it would. It would blow. It was like a volcano, sometimes at, at some moments, whether it was at work or with, you know, my, you know, my mother, you know, or the children who are in, you know, who were in my life, you know, most of the time. So it's that really resonates with me because.

You're right, self-care doesn't need to.

Be a Manny. Petty self-care should.

Really taking care of yourself and ultimately taking care of ourselves.

Dealing with the things in a healthy.

Way that we're going through.

Yeah, and that's what I mean by keeping those small promises to yourself. You for me, brush my teeth twice a day. I wake up feeling good because, oh, I did that. I didn't just skip over it. There's no dishes in the sink. I did that.

I have this that I have to get done for work.

I you know, they add up on top of one another, just like when we don't keep those and we break those promises, they add up and then you end up further down.

And an example of where this showed up in my coaching to or not coaching, parenting.

My kids, I have, they've gotten timeouts. I haven't.

Laid hands on them. I haven't spanked them, right. And when my oldest was two, maybe 3.

We're going to leave the house and he's mad that he can't play anymore and I'm like, you know, well, we have to do this. He's like, well, you're mean Daddy.

And that was that. Just I saw read at a three-year old and I'm like you don't know what mean is if you want to see mean I will show you what mean is and my now ex-wife was like why are you getting mad at a three-year old for saying something to you is it because you're jealous of the childhood.

That you're giving him. And if you know my first reaction was no, you're wrong.

But I thought about it.

Yeah, I am jealous of the childhood I'm giving him. Of course, that's what he thinks mean is.

That's what I set out to do, but that's how easily I could have fallen back into.

Those things, and maybe if he becomes a parent like.

He continues that same path, and that's where.

A lot of.

Our, you know, chains come from and that's how easily you can fall into.

Passing that along, and so that was such a gift to be able to step back and understand and not just take that personally.

And deal with it like.

Yeah, like, of course, I'm mad that you think that this is mean, and now I'll, you know, I'll say I'm grateful that that's what you think mean is, and it usually stops them in their tracks. Like, what do you mean? What do you mean? You're grateful. And then I explain what grateful is and why.

Does that make you happy that I think you're mean and it's like well.

One day we can talk about it, but for now, Daddy had a little bit harder and it has a different definition of mean.

Yeah, that that hits for me as well on a lot of different levels, both as a parent and as a you know as a daughter.

And I think that we, you know, as parents, we do. We strive to be, you know a little bit better.

You know, not knocking our parents because they did the best they could from what they were given and so on and so forth. So if you think about that pattern, you know on a generation level, it's pretty powerful.

But I think it's really, really positive that now.

As a society, we're making it, OK?

To talk about.

It we're making it OK to have a conversation about it. We're making it OK to admit.

There's a problem or recognize, you know that you know, this is the way that I was raised and I don't think that that was right. So I'm going to do it this way.

And that being OK, that's not knocking our parents or knocking, who raised us or knocking.

Who taught us that lesson?

So why don't you just go?

Into a little bit.

About some of your wins, like in your you know, in your coaching world you I'm sure you talk to a lot of people and you know you help a lot of people but why don't you just give us like?

An example of.

Of one time that you.

Can remember that like was really positive and made you feel really.

Good makes you want to.

Keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah. So going through my coaching certification, we would coach other people who were in the program and.

One of my really great friends was really having a hard time because of a restructuring at her job.

And so I walked her. I was able to walk her through just by asking 3 maybe 4 questions.

And in that 45 minute span that we were doing this, she went from.

Believing that she was not going to be able to coach, not through the certification at all, to understanding that she's a ****** and she's going to not just be certified, but be an amazing coach and that 180.

It just.

Help me to understand that.

This is my passion. I'm really good at this and I can help people no matter their level and no matter what it is, that they might have for a challenge that's in front of them. So that one before I even became a certified coach.

That's an example that I go back to if I'm questioning.

Where I'm at right now or what I'm doing, it's like this is tangible and it was someone who knew they were being coached and knew the steps they knew the tactics.

And you just asked 4 questions.

They happen to be the right ones because you listened so well.

And that walk them to completely flipping.

What they were seeing that day.

I love that because I think it's like that awareness.

And that's like when you when you think about it on a different type of level, like an analogy like if a doctor feels like they can.

Diagnose themselves with something when they're a doctor. They can't figure out what's wrong with them, and then they go to another.

Doctor, that has like another.

You know, way to look at things or another way, you know another side of things just to kind of shift that thinking. Sometimes we just need that shift of thinking or that more aware does that trigger right. We only let trigger to like open our eyes a little bit to open that up. And I think we tend to fight that I.

Think as you.

Beings, it's like we're all we're, we're.

Own enemies. I think a lot of the.

Absolutely. And I like to describe that as sometimes we take a look at the forest and we don't see the tree that's in front of us, the multiple trees. And sometimes we focus on that one tree and we don't see the forest. And so having someone who can shift our focus and have that different perspective like you.

You know.

It can help us because we could be seeing the forest one day and the trees at the same time.

And then the next day, all you seize the forest and you just don't know how you're going to get anywhere. And it could be the opposite. A week or two from now, so yeah.

And I think as long as you have the tools.

You can deal with those moments that are going to fluctuate because they're going to fluctuate throughout our whole entire life. There's, you know, our lives aren't linear, so it it's just going to come. We're always going to be experiencing different things. We're always gonna be going through something. We're always going to be dealing with something. We're always going to have pressures in life. I remember specifically one conversation I had with my mother, and it was.

You know, it could have been after the divorce, I couldn't even remember. That's how. That's how poignant this this advice was. I think I remember saying so. Like, when does it stop? Like when? When is it? When is life just ever gonna be?

You know, and she was like, never, never. It's just it's never going to.

Be like that, there's.

Always going to be something happening. There's always going to be, you know, something coming up there always going to be stress. There's always going to.

Be deadlines. There's.

Always going to be, you know, negative things and positive things in your life. It's never going to be straight line. It's always going to because I think it was something like, you know, a dishwasher broke and then the washing machine.

Broke and then and you gotta fight with the spouse. And then the kids were acting up and then you're getting a phone call from.

Work or whatever.

It is and everything just piles in. You're like, when do I get a break? Well, you don't. But if we change our perspective on things.

And we're able to change that focus. There's going to be days where you see the tree and there's going to be days.

Where you see the force, but we have to be equipped.

With dealing and then having the tools to deal with OK what day AM.

I having today.

And if we think about it too?

Sports or work or school. Whatever it is, we always have a mentor or peers or a coach that helps us along the way.

Why don't we have that for life as well? Why don't we make that happen? So we have it in our ourselves so that we have somebody to say, hold on, I think you what if you looked at it from this way, what if you know why is it that you think that one problem is going to solve everything in your life?

Having that and understanding that perspective rather than we should have all the answers.

It opens things up too to give yourself the understanding that you're human and nobody knows all the answers, and we're all going through this together.

And let's be kinder to ourselves. So then we can be kinder to everybody else.

Yeah, I love that. I love that analogy too, because.

You're right. I specifically hired an agility coach for my daughter, the.

Summer, just between seasons and stuff like that, and juice. I got to work on this and I want to work on that and I want to get better at this and I want to get better at that. And when you really think about it, you're right. We have such a taboo feeling about asking for help on our mental stability and making sure we're healthy, you know, mind, body in our mind and our body.

There's like a stigma to it, like somehow you seem weak. If you're asking for help about this, but nobody.

Is beyond, you know, asking a coach you know, on a soccer field for assistance or a trainer or anything like that. So many different.

Levels, we're OK.

With it, but with this for some reason.

We think if we're asking for help.

It's somehow, you know.

We're labeling ourselves probably, as you said, a lot this conversation, we put the pressure on ourselves and we're own critics because us calling, you know, and I like to use the word crazy.

But that's kind of like how I make myself feel. If I'm asking for help or I require some sort of help with anything that's related to, like my mind. Like that must mean I'm crazy and I can't answer anybody or let anyone know that I can't handle it all. Like I that's the last thing I.

Want to do?

But why? Why? We're like programs to.

To think.

That this is somehow a bad thing.

And that's so bizarre to me.

It when you sit back and you think about it, it is, it is. And when we look at and I'm not exactly sure where it comes from, but we look at successful people like they got there on their own.

And not a single person, not a single person who has been successful, has gotten anywhere on their own.

There are plenty of people who.

Have lost everything because they.

Did it on their own.

But nobody who's successful has actually done it on their own.

Yeah, I love it. I love what you're doing. It's so positive.

And I love that you're taking from your experiences and you harness that and now you.

Wanting to help others.

RJ, how can people get in touch with you?

Yeah, I have a weekly podcast called Untapped keg that posts every Monday on all audio platforms and YouTube. You can go to untappedkeg dot com that's untapped keg one word and dot com and you can find me on Instagram at untapped keg. I share.

At least three times a week, usually five times a week, I'll share snippets, lessons that I've relearned honestly, lessons that I've learned on my, you know, self.

Discovery journey, because really, that's what it's been is discovering how I want to live life and then.

Finding a creative way to live my life that way.

I love it.

Thank you so much for joining us today. You know any of the listeners out there, please get in touch with RJ because I think that this is important and it's something that you know on a human level we need to.

Just accept and be open to because I think now a lot more.

You know, a lot of people are struggling and I believe that this is this is a great asset.

And I commend you for what you're doing.

I appreciate it and I always forget this part, but it's really important. I have a free monthly men's group that meets over zoom. So if you go to untapped.com and you Scroll down, you'll find how to.

Bring it up. Set. Share it with somebody who you know who could use being around a bunch of people who are willing to talk about our challenges and our successes because both are a part of life and we tend to skip over.

Both. So again, that's a free men's group that meets once a month or resume and.

And if you go, you don't have to talk. You don't have to have your camera on. They can just observe until they want to jump in. But I wanted to put that out there too.

Oh, I love that community platform. Definitely. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been, uh, a really, really great conversation.

Thanks for having me, Kasey.