In this fascinating episode, Jill interviews Joanne Homestead, a copywriter and marketer, about the power of storytelling in marketing. Joanne explains the concept of “reverse engineering” storytelling, and also provides tips on how to hook readers in with just the first line of an email!
Learn more about Joanne Homestead at Desk Plant Creatives
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Transcript
Transcript
Hi and
Welcome to the
You World Order Showcase Podcast today we are talking with Joanne Homestead.
Joanne is going to talk to us about elevating our stories.
Elevate your voice by crafting connection driven copy.
That sounds sexy, Joanne.
OK, I love.
That how you just said that most people were like.
That's perfect.
It's perfect.
I actually have been over on your website and scoured all around.
I even opted into your how to.
How to make?
Really good copy. They and.
It just the things.
That really drew me to what you did with your, with your little giveaway was that it's so.
Well put together.
It's actionable and it's really good tips.
It's just like and it resonated with me in a way.
Lots, lots of copywriting.
People I paid.
Lots of money to teach me how.
To do copywriting, but it's.
All around, like it's so salesy and manipulative.
And yours is so refreshing cause it's.
All about stories.
So tell us about that.
How did.
You get started.
OK.
Thank you so much.
First of all, for promoting my free lead magnet for me.
And yes, it is all about how to use storytelling specifically in e-mail sequences, but it can be used for really anything in your business.
As I'd like to tell my clients, please use whatever you learn for your social media.
Or sales pages, whatever it is.
So absolutely love talking about storytelling is why I love doing what I do as a marketer, which is really weird to say because three years ago I had no idea what a copywriter was besides knowing that a copyright is that little C with the.
It's like a legal thing.
And so I was really able to take so before.
Owning my own business and becoming a copywriter and now also a copy coach, I was a teacher.
In elementary primary school and also like a literacy specialist and a mentor and coach for other teachers as well.
I we I can see it now, like when.
I look back.
How I brought what I love from teaching into what I do now and it.
Exactly the same thing, which for a lot of people would say, where's the correlation from, you know, teaching little kids to?
Doing copywriting and marketing for other entrepreneurs and businesses you know I don't.
Come with a.
Business background.
I come with a teaching background and what?
It was as a teacher.
What I loved doing was really understanding my audience.
It was really understanding who I'm talking to and having taught so many different grades.
In so many different districts and.
Different countries and everything.
Really understanding who you're talking to is really.
The key of what I loved about teaching like, OK, what do they know?
What do they need to hear?
What stories do they need to hear to help engage them, to help them take an action and own their action?
It's not about forcing them to take action because you know, when you force someone to take action, there's it's just not going to be as effective.
And it's the same thing.
And what I do now, it's exactly that as a copywriter is understanding.
Who am I talking to?
What do they need to hear and what story they're going to help resonate?
I know you use that word resonance, and that's something that has been coming up a lot for me recently.
As I've been thinking about what I want story to do for businesses, and it is to resonate.
And to OK, there was another R.
What was it?
Ohh reverberate.
And there's this theme of just like this, like a tuning fork.
And you just you just tap it one.
Very simply and then.
It just resonates.
And I just I.
Just love that feeling right now, so.
I want I want stories to do that.
There's something else that that tuning works you may not know this, but if you have two tuning forks and you hit one, it'll cause the other one to start vibrating at the same frequency.
Oh my gosh, I did not know that now I want.
To get confused.
Thank you.
Where can I get it?
Part of what you do though.
You help people.
Start the fork.
Going the one fork and you want to find another fork.
Out there who can?
Vibrate at the same frequency so that that is where the magic happens.
In copywriting I think.
At least.
From what I.
Gathered quickly from what you were saying on your website.
Absolutely that it's.
It's the story, but it's also.
It's the story, but it's also.
For, you know, business owners and entrepreneurs and for personal brands, it's the.
Like understanding your personal brand to help you.
Give direction to your story because.
I can basically take any random story that I have for like a personal story or a business story, and I can connect it to whatever my business, but it works because I know.
One I know, I know, like my brand values.
I know what I stand for.
Like when I.
Right about it.
I know it's speaking my personal brand.
And so that's another piece of the storytelling is that.
It can be random, but it's not really random because the, like the foundation, is understanding who you are and how you want to run your business, how you want to treat your clients or customers.
And understanding from their side what it is they are thinking and dealing with and dreaming about.
And having that it's like that tuning fork you're just saying.
To have your message and your stories resonate.
So that it reverberates and resonates with them, and it just creates it.
It creates a whole emotional experience.
Which is also what copywriting is about it.
It's the and it's not like.
Forcing anyone to feel a certain way.
You don't need to support you people.
They're gonna feel how they're gonna feel.
Right.
They're going to feel how they're going to feel and so.
I know.
I feel like words and stories are really important and powerful, and so the way we use it, we can use it responsibly.
In ways so that it doesn't create any sense of like, it's not about creating a sense of guilt to get people to buy.
Not creating a sense of regret that, oh, I didn't buy it.
I should have bought it, you know, like.
We don't want people to feel that way.
They you want, you want your business associated with positive feelings and feeling supported and encouraged just like.
Just like human beings, you know, they're putting this human being back, part of the marketing.
Yeah, other people out there that are like you.
Need what it is that you have to offer in in a way that they can receive that information so that they can identify with it.
Sales and marketing used to be more about trying to manipulate people into stuff and use mind tricks and games like.
For selling soap.
It started out with Ivory soap, the soap that floats.
Years and years, decades ago.
That's how.
The marketing you have marketing agencies and.
You have like.
There's things that sell that.
But really I.
Think we're moving towards a more enlightened.
Society where people want to feel.
Drawn into the pros.
That they want to be.
A part of.
It they want to see how it feels in their life rather than just being manipulated or tricked into buying something that doesn't feel good.
No, that absolutely does not feel good.
And you know, I feel like marketing now, just like how you're saying is evolving and changing.
And in this online business world like feel like it.
Becoming something more like consent based.
More just about building relationships, you know, like I work a lot of clients are of mine are coaches and so they're like, well, like, why do I have to work on this marketing side?
I just want I just want to coach.
Like, well, if you have your own business, you're.
Gonna need to.
There's lots of hats you're gonna have to wear.
Through marketing?
But if you think about marketing as just building relationships with people, it makes it different.
It's not about, it's not about convincing people in a way that feels like.
It's about I like to say it's a heart led persuasion.
You're you are convincing people.
Yes, you are.
But not in a manipulative way in a way that is authentic to you and is led by your heart.
Cause I work with a lot of people who are, you know, heart centered, soulful entrepreneurs.
And so that.
That resonates with them, and that makes it feel good.
It makes it feel like ohh, OK, my e-mail marketing isn't about.
Like pushing anything, it's just it's a conversation.
It's another way to build a relationship and for.
Their audience to get to know them in a more intimate way through storytelling.
And when you tell stories, it helps people relate to you.
As a human being.
So by extension, it makes them feel like you're talking to them also as a human being, not just as a potential client out there that you're gonna try to suck their money out of their pocket, which most coaches.
That I've ever met would.
Venture to say all coaches that.
I've ever met.
Aren't like that.
They genuinely want.
To help people solve the problem.
And being able to learn how to articulate.
How it is that you?
Help them solve the problem or a micro problem that they're having related to the bigger.
Just having stories that help them relate I think is really crucial and learning.
It's a skill and I.
I have talked to you.
What you're doing is really powerful in terms of helping.
Shift the market to a kinder, gentler.
Way of communicating with people that have asked to be part of your sequence.
It's not.
It's not.
Doesn't feel so icky.
Yeah, it's like getting an.
E-mail from my friend and.
Feeling like yes.
And they're asking to get to know you because they're they've joined your, you know, they've joined your e-mail lists.
They've given permission for that.
They want to hear from you.
So storytelling, it's such a great way to relate.
And also they get to know you and kind of fun ways too.
You know, storytelling doesn't have to be.
A lot of people may think like, OK, so right.
I'm going to tell.
It's got to be really epic.
Or have to like dig so deep or it.
It has.
To be fun and light like it can be whatever you want it to feel like to be.
And it doesn't have to be one way.
The point is just to relate and resonate and to say just give it even little things like a I like to say like have your own personal story markers.
They get to know like you.
What are the three things that you continually talk about in your personal life?
And would you be willing to talk about that in your business, your storytelling?
One is for me is I usually sit on my yoga ball when I'm.
Working or I work in the backyard a.
So I talk about that a lot in my emails and so people get to know me and like, Oh yeah, Joanne, she loves working outside.
A bird pooped on her laptop one time.
I remember that story and.
It's like fun little things like that.
So they feel.
Like they're getting.
To know you like.
Oh yeah, Joanne.
She looks Donuts.
Yeah, I it's just like little bits here and there within the story.
Those are kind of like your personal story markers that help people get to know you just like how you get to know people in real life.
And it's not all at once you don't have.
To tell them everything.
In the 1st 15 seconds that you meet somebody, it's through the experiences that you have with this person over.
Fun how do you how?
Do you train it?
Intertwine the sales aspect?
What are your thoughts on that cause?
Ultimately, you do want them to take the.
Next step, which is to.
Become more involved with what you're doing.
Yeah, absolutely. I.
Like to say, you know, there's like three types of content you marketing content for e-mail.
Also you can use for social media that you can use.
One is the connection e-mail.
UM, the other is the value providing value e-mail on the 3rd is the promotional e-mail which some people can spend a whole lot of time in the.
Connection and that bringing value and then they're not actually promoting.
And the purpose of this of having your e-mail list is so people know what services you have.
What do you have to offer?
And so having promotional emails through in a sequence or even your e-mail newsletters, whatever it is that.
It doesn't have to feel again.
It's not have to feel pushy or you're bothering people.
People signed up to hear from you and they know you're a business and so.
You don't.
You don't need to feel like you're pushing anything because you're you've taken the time and the energy to nurture your community through e-mail.
And then when you're promoting it's, it's like inviting them in to say, hey, I'm, I'm so excited to offer this to you because I know it's going to help you.
I know it's I have the expertise for to help support you and whatever the.
The problem is that they are having and so it's really just an invitation and it doesn't have to that's why that's why it doesn't have to feel salesy.
It's just inviting them in and saying, OK, so this is, this is what offer I have right now.
You can even say like this is how many availabilities I have and even infusing storytelling into your promotional emails too, because that's still that's still like providing the value.
Because people relate to stories, it's just more entertaining in general.
And then you just tie it to whatever you're promoting or selling.
Are there like several?
Markers for telling a story.
Is that?
Is that a way of saying it?
Yeah, I know.
Do you? I'm asking.
What can you explain?
Can I try again?
When you create a story.
Are there like?
Well, let me.
Equate it with like a sales call, but there's steps when you have a sales call or when you have a discovery.
Call and each.
Step has a purpose.
Are there steps?
When you create a story that you could share.
That that you'd want to share.
There's the topsy friend.
Yeah, yeah. Nothing secret.
Ohh thank you.
Let me get my top secret envelope out.
Thank you for an idea, I know, I know.
Opening it carefully.
I'm having I'm having a moment here.
I'm imagining it actually I'm.
Like oh, it would.
Be so great.
If I had a vanilla and pull open it to top secret and I open it.
And there's there it is.
OK, sorry.
There it is.
Well, this is this is all podcasting, so you could just be like.
Here I'll make some noise like.
The paper out of the envelope and.
The answer is.
And I just open it up, you know, get that crinkle sound.
Well, we call it out for effect and.
Here it is.
Top secrets to storytelling.
Hardly say.
I would say generally for when you're trying to tell a story specifically to segue into whatever it is you're talking about for your business is to.
Backward design it, which someone was saying to me.
They're like, you know, I used to call it backward design.
And then my her husband said they were an engineer.
And said you.
Know that's really called reverse engineering, not backward design.
I was like, well, I like.
That OK, reverse engineering.
That's cool.
That you basically.
Before thinking about what story you're going to tell.
First, think about what is the key take away of the e-mail? What do I? What's the one key take away? I want my e-mail writer to get from reading this e-mail.
So it may be anything like, OK, I want them to feel encouraged.
OK.
They're feeling really bogged down in their business or I want them to feel inspired or I have a specific how to tip.
I want to give them here.
That's going to help them along.
Give them.
That small win, whatever it is.
Whatever the key take away is you take that, then you can think about, OK, now with the story.
That I can tell that would.
Relate to that take away.
So let me see if I can think of a specific example, because I was just working with someone yesterday in an intensive and she.
This is what we were doing.
We were figuring out.
OK, So what?
What's the main purpose?
Of this e-mail.
And then from there, OK, what kind of story will help resonate with that?
Give me a give me a second here.
I get it.
I gotta access yesterday.
Thank you.
Oh, OK, so got it.
Thank you.
Because if it was silent.
I would just get too much pressure.
So she helps her client.
OK.
And one of the biggest thing, one of the biggest blocks for them to work.
With her is.
They can't let go.
Of their content to give to someone else to do because the content is.
Has become.
A part of their.
Their identity, their.
It's like their baby.
And so we understandably, that's how they let go.
But I get that.
And so we're thinking, OK, let's, let's just story that could help.
Then see that you really.
See them in that and you really understand them and that you really feel for.
Them and that and this is.
A solution a shift in mindset to help them.
Let go into truck and hand.
And so we were able to come up with a story from her.
I think it.
Came with two possible ones, one more like personal from her personal life and one from more.
Her business side.
And so then she's able to go and write her story.
That then segues into what she really wants.
Her e-mail reader to get.
From that, did that answer your question?
It, and it did and.
It's really helpful.
Starting at the.
Back and move to the beginning and then.
Ostensibly, the first piece which would be the last piece would be the hook.
So then once you have your story, then you can hook the reader in.
Like a lot of times when people tell stories they give like an introductory paragraph, which is what you're.
Taught in school.
Which I have done before because I'm the teacher.
You keep the.
Five paragraph essay you have your introductory paragraph and you've got.
That hearing.
The body and then.
You got the conclusion like no scrap.
All that throw it.
Out the window.
I'm saying this as a teacher.
You could.
Throw it out the window and what?
What if what we're really trying to do is to hook the reader in with the very first line of your e-mail, so just grab the introduction, scrap the set up like a lot of people want to, like, set up the story, and then they get into the juicy part.
Just scrap the setup and just get right into the juicy part.
And then in my I talked about this in my free leaf magnet that you had mentioned before.
Let me see if I can remember the title of my free hundred night hit.
OK, it's three simple steps.
To irresistibly entertaining emails that so and so, it's three simple steps.
I say simple because it's not.
It's not easy.
You gotta practice.
It's gotta work at it.
But they are simple stuff and one of the steps is to hook the reader in.
With your very first line of your e-mail and I give I think I give seven different examples of hooks that you can use to help hook the readers in.
It could be.
Like starting with the little dialogue just.
You just basically, you're putting the person right.
Into the story.
Just like when you watch a movie.
That first thing it feels like you should get sucked, right?
Into the right into.
The story it's like mid action, you're.
Like what's going?
On OK, this is happening.
All right.
What's gonna happen next?
And I'm like, on the edge of my seat.
And so it's the same thing with storytelling and writing that you can just same thing, just drop them into the story.
Get them invested in.
Wanting to know what?
What's going?
What's happening?
Where is she going with this and just?
Knowing they're gonna know.
Like OK, I.
Know she's got some lesson in here for.
Me, you know.
I love that.
I love that just drop them into the story.
I think I need to write that down.
Into the story, I really did just write.
That down.
Yes, OK.
There was one time.
Speaking of like the reverse engineering.
Or maybe there were a couple times before when I write to my own e-mail community, I think there was a couple times where I did not reverse engineer.
I had a story.
And maybe it just came to me and I saw where it took me and.
It took me to where?
I wanted to go in the end.
So I was like, oh, this is great.
So you can do it.
You could go the other way too, you know.
Yeah. So sorry you have to start with the take away. You could start with the story and what you're doing is like you're kind of digging, you're digging, you're digging the story. You're.
And you're kind of writing it out, or you can you can talk it out.
That's fine, too.
You're basically you're finding the thread you're finding.
A theme or you're finding the tension. Either you're finding like where's the tension and that's the point. Like, oh, here's I know what the take away is here.
Or you're finding like that transformational point and you go ohh. This is the take away here or you find the thing like there's some common threads about the story.
There you go. Ohh, here's the take away. So you can go either way. I like to be a rule vendor, so I can give a strategy and say and then go ahead and just totally break that strategy. Just be creative. Just go, go with it.
I love that flexibility because you.
Never know, you know.
Some things work for some people and some things work for some people.
Some of the time, and they need to switch it out to get those creative juices going.
And really just.
Sometimes you just like.
Meandering down the path and you're wondering where it's going to take you.
Yes, that is actually with the e-mail in my welcome nurture sequences.
Feeling lost in the weeds as you're meandering through your story.
Have you ever gotten lost in the weeds?
Well, here are.
Some tips on?
How to help you find your?
Way through your story.
Yeah, that does happen a lot.
You know, they.
My clients reverse engineer and then they have the story, and then they're telling the story and then they get lost again, which is totally fine.
That happens, and they're like, what's the point?
What was the purpose?
Am I why?
Am I telling the story again?
And then just calling back to the grounding of OK, what was the purpose?
What am I doing here?
We'll help you find your story again.
Now, how could people work?
With you, Joanne.
Go like that and go to my.website@deskplanetcreative.com desk lamps.
Like you got like a succulent on your.
On your Home Office stuff.
And the creatives with the S at the end.
Duckplantcreative.com and there they can go to the work with me tab and I have a few different offerings. One is.
My gun for you service, right?
Right.
e-mail sequence for my client.
This is my VIP service.
My second offering is copy coaching, which I added on.
It's of July, I think it was exactly a year ago.
It's been 12 months of doing my copy coaching program and it's a one to one program.
It's highly tailored and customized and it's a holistic coffee coaching program that combines.
Coaching because we all get mindset blocks around, it happens to all of us and it happens along the way.
And you know, like blind side you, which usually is what happens to me, get blind side and then also like teaching upskilling, copywriting and also storytelling and how to use that.
Your business and then also consulting, we do strategy create a customized strategy for your e-mail list for a lot of lot of people they know they need to start an e-mail list because everyone says you got to have an e-mail list for your business.
But that they have it set a vision or a purpose for the e-mail list, and so they feel lost and they're not writing to their list because they just.
Don't have the overall.
Vision for us, we do stretch.
With that one too.
And then it's through a five part coaching methodology that I use there.
That's the copy.
Oh, I didn't tell you the names are just plant created desk plant themes.
So the copy coaching is the burgeoning bonsai copy.
Jane, the gun for you is the I give you Easter Lily done for you.
The IP sequence and then the third offering is a is an intensive.
Which is what I was doing with the client yesterday.
As more consultation, so this one is the lively lavender.
Intensive for your next best e-mail sequence.
So if you feel fairly confident with writing your own emails that you're just looking for support and you're thinking of the next e-mail sequence you want, right, and you want to infuse storytelling into it, you really dig into the story that you tell to help resonate and.
Reverberate to your own e-mail community.
Fantastic, just fantastic.
So what is the one thing that you want?
Our audience to take away from this conversation and let me tell you that we've just covered.
So much ground.
One thing.
OK.
The one thing is good, that's super.
Top secret envelope because I'm still thinking about that.
Ohh that'd be.
Such a good idea?
No one thing would be.
You know, if you if you want to try storytelling.
Start collecting your stories.
And you'll see you'll.
Be surprised with what?
What you find in there and.
I talk about, you know, you can tell different kinds of stories.
And one of my favorite ones is the everyday story.
And this is just things that happen in your everyday life because they're those are the most relatable really such as like talked about trying to wrestle the fitted sheet onto our mattress.
I'm sure that's very relatable for many people looking to make that frustrating.
Or folding those fitted sheets.
I'm not even gonna go there because I can't.
I can't fold those.
Things I just.
Stuff them in the in the in the pillowcase.
Ohh, that's a great idea, I just I just crumple and then I.
I shove it into the.
Closet every time I open it, it just falls out.
But I just hold this pillow case.
I'm going to try that, OK.
Then they're all neat in there.
Because they're all pillowcases.
You can smash them down and make a kind of square.
I was just thinking that my kids would really like playing with them.
Too, yeah, great for both fights.
What about that?
Sorry, I totally do that to everyday stories.
Every day.
So yes, they're collecting even just like everyday stories, like going to the coffee shop.
And what happened during your kids depends.
On your bed.
Just what is happening in your life?
Write it down and try it out.
Try writing out your own story and don't even try and like, do a take away or anything. Just write it out and see how it feels.
I love this.
This conversation has helped me.
I'm thinking about my chickens and the chickens that.
Escape all the.
Time I have two escaped chickens out of the 8 chickens that I have in.
In this coop and.
And I was talking about my chickens.
We're gonna.
Write some stories.
Around that and the adventures that we.
Have looking for them.
I love that yes, they.
Haven't found their eggs.
I immediately want to know more about your chickens just from you saying that I'm like ohh this.
Sounds exciting.
You'll have to get on my.
E-mail list yes, I want to hear about the chicken.
There you go.
Thanks so much.
You're joining me, Joanne?
Thank you so much, Jill.
I had really.
Fun today talking and laughing.
And talking.