Behind every powerful brand is a story—and Melanie Whittaker helps women share theirs with confidence. In this conversation, Melanie opens up about growing up with a narcissistic mother, discovering the difference between conditional and unconditional love, and how that shaped her work as a PR consultant.
She explains why authentic storytelling is more magnetic than “perfect” marketing, the key difference between PR and marketing, and how peeling back the layers of your story helps you connect with the right people.
Melanie is a public relations consultant and founder of You Are Your Marketing, where she helps women expand their visibility through podcasts, magazines, digital TV, and more. Her chapter Coming Out of the Shadows in the book Transforming Pain into Purpose shows how owning your truth is the gateway to impact.
✨ Connect with Melanie + grab her free guide: youareyourmarketing.com/freebie
📖 Support the book launch (Sept 26th for 99¢): hartlifecoach.com/pain-into-purpose
Resources
👉Alchemist's Guide to Podcast Audiences & Best Be a Guest Directory - discover where your ideal clients are tuning in and how to get featured on those podcasts.
👉Podcasting on Substack - the Ultimate Guide for Coaches & Creators to Leverage Substack for Getting Visible
▶ Workshops for leveraging podcasts to attract clients & build authority
🚀Monetize Your Mission Mastermind
Catch the podcast & join the conversation on Substack The You World Order Showcase Podcast
Transcript
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Behind every powerful brand is a story, and our next guest knows how to bring it into the light. As a PR consultant, she helps women weave their stories into marketing that feels real, relatable, and magnetic.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In Transforming Pain into Purpose, Melanie shares why visibility starts with owning your truth. Welcome to the UWorld Order Showcase Podcast mini-episode showcasing the authors of the book, Transforming Pain into Purpose.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Today, Melanie Whitaker joins us. Melanie is a public relations consultant and founder of You Are Your Marketing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: She helps women expand their reach and visibility by sharing their authentic story through podcasts, magazines, newspapers, and digital TV. Her mission is to show women that their story is their most powerful asset in both business and life. Melanie's chapter is coming out of the shadows.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And she's here to join us to chat all about it. Thanks, Melanie, for joining me.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Oh, thanks for having me Thanks for having me, Bill, thank you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, so let's just dive right in, because we're going to keep this short and sweet. Your chapter… in your chapter, you really emphasize the power of owning your own story. How does that connect to the work you're doing, now helping women get visible through PR and marketing?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Yeah, well, before I go into the work that I do, it would benefit people to know what I've been through. So, I grew up with an narcissistic mother.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And if you are filled with narcissism, then they control you, they gaslight you, they manipulate you, and you're not allowed to be yourself. And if you are trying to be yourself, there will be consequences, and my mum was the typical playing the victim.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: My dad wasn't, a narcissist, but he enabled her.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And so…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: The problem arose, as you can imagine, when I got into my teens, and obviously any teenager. I was never a bad teen, I never brought trouble on the doorstep, but I was doing what any teenager's gonna do, which is try and…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Find your identity in the world, find out what you love, what you don't love, and just form your personality, and form your character.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And that was a problem, because my mum didn't want me to have one. And so…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: what I realized in my teenage years was…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I knew what… so I knew what conditional love was. Not unconditional. I had no idea what unconditional love was. I didn't even know what those phrases were.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Until my grandmother, my late grandmother, who was my dad's mum, She filled me in.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And she never tarnished my mother's name, never. It was only one day when I went round to her crying over how she was messing with my head.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: that she was open enough to say, your mum wants conditional love, she's a narcissist, and so you will only have a good time if you do what she demands of you to do. And that was when I realised what I was in.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So why am I telling this story, and why does it link with the work that I do with marketing and public relations? There's a big reason why, and I never knew until a client told me.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And so, because I've been through…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: The fear of being myself in my own house, with my own parents, I know what it's like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: to worry about being yourself. Did I say the right thing? Did I look at someone the wrong way, and now they're gonna make it something that it isn't? Like, I was always second-guessing myself, and I was always waiting for drama, because that's what narcissists do. They create chaos.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And there you go.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And it's very draining, it's very tiring, and I was fighting all the time.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And when I say fighty, I mean just fighting to be me.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: All I wanted was to be me, that's all I wanted.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And so when I do public relations for women.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: they will come to me with their vulnerability, because I am honest with them. I don't frighten them, but I always say to them, the more we go down this route of you doing PR,
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: You're going to find some icky moments, and you are going to be maybe in a situation like this, where they do a podcast interview.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: You can't always control a question that's going to be asked, and you could be asked a question, and it brings something to the surface, and you're like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I didn't really want to talk about that, or I'd put that to bed, and I'm not dealing with that anymore. And things are going to come to the surface, and you're going to worry about being visible. You're going to worry, will people judge you? Will people cancel you? Will trolls come on your post? All this kind of stuff.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And… That's what I do with my clients. I guide them through that process so that they feel safe.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: in New York.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that. I think it's really important. As someone who's overcome a lot of these sorts of things in my own life, it's…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's refreshing to know that You can be you, and others will be attracted to you being you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: It's so true. Because I want to say this, because this happens a lot. So, I could be in a conversation with a client, and
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: out of nowhere, they'll just say, do you think I could say XYZ?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I never answer that, because…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I don't want to put my feelings into the mix. They are their own person, this is why I called my business, you are your marketing. I can get you the PR, but you are the one steering the ship. So if they say, do you think I should mention this?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I will always say this.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Is that your truth?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And they have a moment, and they'll so… they'll just suddenly go, Yeah!
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: That is my truth, I lived it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I'm like, okay then.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So the next step is… No matter what the consequences could be, if you divulge that information.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Do you feel that you emotionally
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: can deal with it. Whatever the outcome is, whether it's received well, or whether it's received bad.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Do you feel emotionally prepared to deal with that?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I say, you don't have to answer it now. Go away, think about it, you don't have to put it out online now.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And what will always happen is, they always end up saying, I'm gonna do it. And I'm like, good for you. Notice how I've not said yes or no to the scenario. I've let them work it out in their own head.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I've let them work it out in their own time. If the person, if my client said to me.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Actually, I don't feel ready right now. Then that's fine! That could be a situation that they never divulge, or it could be that it's something that they bring up later.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But right here and now, they're not ready. And so what I love when I talk to my clients is I say, PR, I like to call it the onion effect, because with every interview, you reveal another layer of who you are.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And so, you get to say how much of the onion we are gonna peel back.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And you also get to say what you're going to peel back. So you're in control of it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And this is why they're a little bit dubious at the start. They're like, should I, shouldn't I?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But, once they work through this.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: We'll then hop on calls, and they'll be like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I'm saying blah blah blah. And I love it because they gain this!
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: confidence, and they're suddenly free. They're free to be themselves, and they're like, I don't care if people don't like this, because it's my truth, I've done this.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: whether it was a good situation or a bad situation, I'm gonna get over the fear, because someone out there needs to hear it. Because if someone had told me this.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: God, it could have saved so many years of heartache, or whatever.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I love seeing a woman process this in her own time without me saying yes or no. And I want to say why I don't give them the answer.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Even though I might think it's a good idea.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I will never say yes or no.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Because if I was to say yes, But they're not emotionally ready.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Then, in an effect, it's like a puppet.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And the person's pulling the strings, and then they're just… they're clunky. They're clunky, they're wooden, their energy's off.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So that would mean the people receiving that
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: are thinking, something's not quite right here, they don't seem confident in what they're doing. And you're gonna actually repel people, because they're gonna be like, hmm, something's a bit weirder. What I always do is let them work it out in their own time, and if they feel ready.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: then I know that their energy is behind it, and no matter what the consequence will be of how people receive it, it doesn't matter, because they're ready.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So what's the difference between PR and marketing?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Oh, I love this question! It's a very easy one to answer. So, I give the example of having two cars. So, let's say I have a car in the left-hand lane, and then I have a car in the right-hand lane. The car in the left-hand lane is marketing.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Marketing is always asking for a sale.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So it could be buy my book, buy my retreat, come and join my mastermind, whatever the thing is that you want to sell, okay?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: The other car in the right-hand lane is public relations.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: That will never… for money.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Doesn't want your money.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Public relations is, number one, sharing your story, the highs, the lows, the in-betweens.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And it's showing people who you are. It's showing your personality, it's showing…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: what you're passionate about. Like, for instance, I could have a woman come to me, we're doing whatever we're doing, and when I'm preparing her pitch and press releases, she could drop some information. So it could be anything, it could be she went through a divorce.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Had a miscarriage, eating disorder, bullying, whatever.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I, when I come across something like that in someone's story, I will always say…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Would you be happy to discuss this?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Now, a lot of the times, they'll be like, but what's that got to do with what we're launching? Like, that's got nothing to do with that. And I go, it has, because I'll tell you why.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Everyone is trying to sell something.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But when you're trying to sell something to a stranger, imagine the amount of people that will come across you just by accident. They could listen to a podcast interview, or they could read an article, or they see one of your social media posts. They don't know you at this point. You're just a stranger online.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But when you've revealed, hey.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I went through a really messy divorce, or I went through a really bad miscarriage, or I used to have this really bad eating disorder. Guess what's gonna happen now?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: All of a sudden, the woman who's going through that
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Or maybe she's been through it?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: is now going, wow, I never knew she'd…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: God, I would never have said that! Because you don't know. We all create stories about people we see online, we don't know them.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But when someone is brought into your world.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Now they're paying attention, and they're going, wow, I never knew that about her. And then they're gonna go off, they're gonna find you on your website, they're gonna see your social media, and they're gonna go down a rabbit hole. Because they're gonna be like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I like this woman. She's been brave enough to share that.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I wonder what else she's sharing in her marketing. I'm intrigued. So now you've piqued curiosity, all because you divulged something very personal. Now, I'm not saying you've got to do that with everything, not everyone wants to go down that road, that's fine. But if someone's happy to do it, it's definitely a way of drawing people in.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's a… that's a great explanation.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it also probably points out why it's important to be really you, and to not try to share…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Try to spend all your time creating this image that isn't really you.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I could talk for hours on this, and I know we're having a short interview. What I'm gonna say to that, because I… it annoys me.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And fortunately, the marketing landscape's changing, so it is dying out. It's still there, but it's dying out.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There are lots of people who will rock up online, and they portray this perfect life, that they live in the perfect house, and they wake up, and there's zeros in their bank account, and they've not even had their morning cup of tea.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And, they get to go to really flashy restaurants, and they drive really nice cars, and they go on lots of holidays a year, and it's all ego-centric, ego-driven.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I hate it with a passion. Does that mean I have money problems? Well, we all have money problems, we all have a money story. What I'm trying to say is.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I have no problem with someone being successful. No problem at all. I want you to make all the money you want to make, I want you to lead a very happy life, and I want you to just love your life, in whichever way that's gonna look to you. What I won't stand behind is someone flexing that
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: to make sales. Because nobody's had the perfect life, And this is where women…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: feel really… weird with me at first. Because they're a bit like…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So when I… because sometimes they'll come to me before they go on a podcast, and they'll be like, do you think I should say this? And do you think I should say that? And I'll be like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Let's breathe. Let's just breathe. I want you to be natural on that interview.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: What I do want to say is, be yourself, and that can sound really weird, and if you've been through narcissism, you don't even know what yourself is, let alone be it, right? So…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: what I love when I'm talking to my women is I say to them, don't speak as if you're about to read the news. This is not a formal interview. You don't have to be all precise and proper. Just let yourself relax.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And it will come out the way it's supposed to come out.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But you need to be true to you. So stop trying to act like this perfect coach that's had the perfect life, that has no stress, and no drama, and no problems, because it's smoke and mirrors, and we all know that. So…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: this is another journey that I go on with my clients, because they're used to these people portraying a perfect life, and they're like, yeah, but if I admit this, or if I say this, people won't take me professionally, and I'm like, they will.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: They will, because these coaches are… I know I'm centering on coaches, because I deal with them a lot, but they don't have to be a coach, they could be anybody online.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: If someone is trying to sell the perfect life, You need to ask why.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Because everyone has got a story. Even if you were born into money.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: something's gone on in your family. 100%. So…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I always say to my clients, when we do PR, we're gonna go through the whole peeling of the onion, you're gonna be like, oh my goodness, I didn't really think I was gonna discuss this, and now I am.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And then we're gonna go through the whole of, well, how do I show up online? And when I do my PR interviews, how relaxed can I be? And I'm like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: just be yourself. And what comes of that… The more they do them.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: they get very laser-focused on their marketing, because their message now becomes so crystal clear. They're not confused, they're not looking at a blank screen going, what do I talk about today? Because the passion that's inside of them is just…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I love to see that journey.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I suggest to people, usually when people come on my podcast, I make an offer to them that they can go through the podcast guesting workshop. And in that workshop, I have the four pillars of podcast guesting, because there's an art to it, and if you
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you will come to a podcast interview knowing what the main topic you want to cover, the one big idea that you want to get across to your audience.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or to the host's audience, and then have 2 or 3 or 5 or 6, depending on how long the episode's going to be. Stories.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that push towards that and illustrate that main idea. And then, you can control the conversation, rather than waiting on the host to keep asking you questions.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it becomes more of a conversation that way, because it forces the host to just ask you relevant questions to the topic you want to cover. So, when people come on my podcast, I ask them, what's the big thing you want to cover in this interview?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I will do it however you want.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But, you know, if you're gonna, like, leave it to me, we're gonna go wherever I wanna go, because…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hey!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's just how it is!
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Yeah!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm more than happy to help them get going. And the other thing that I would…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: just… I'm just gonna share it with the audience now, is that if you come on… if you go on someone's podcast.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's your content, too. It's not just the host's content. You are creating a piece…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: of… of content, it's… you could have written it yourself, but you're… you're doing a co-creation sort of thing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's not just the host's responsibility to get out there and market this piece. It's yours, too! Go out and share it with others.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, you maybe know somebody that needs to hear this message, or maybe you've listened to some other episodes, and you're like, hey, that person really struck me, and I know XYZ over there has never even heard of this podcast. I'm gonna share that episode with them.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That… it helps everybody who's gone on the podcast.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Kolulu.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's just like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm all about, you know, everybody helping everybody else. It just, like, that's… that's where the magic happens in the world, when we all, like.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. Stop trying to be the ONLY big thing. I, you know…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're just not, okay? Get over it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Exactly. Exactly! Take the pressure off! Take the pressure off!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Show up, and tell your story, and have a conversation, and just…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Be you! That's what we're here to… we're here to learn about. We want to meet you.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Exactly. Well, we'll figure out what it is you do later.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Exactly! I love it!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: On that note, I know that you offer people a guide to understanding the difference between marketing and public relations, and I'm sure that you go into it in a much, much more in-depth than we talked about right here.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So, I do.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Yeah, I will give you the link for that, and yeah, because I get asked that question a lot. A lot of women, they'll maybe hop on a call, and they'll be like, I see your content, and they'll often say, those that don't fully understand PR, they'll say.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But why do I need PR? Because I'm already doing marketing. Why do I need that as well?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And… you know, as I say, the marketing landscape's changed, and…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: You know, let me give you an example, briefly. You could have a health coach.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: There are many, many health coaches in the world.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: The reason someone wants a health coach can be for many reasons. It could be health.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: It could be losing weight. You could have a woman who's gonna get married, so she wants to rock her wedding dress, or she's going on a beautiful holiday, and so she wants to look great in her bikini. But then you could have someone who's got a health scare, and it's like, if you don't book up, this is gonna look serious.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Health coaches themselves…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: We know the kind of health coaches that are all about the vanity aspects, we know those type, but then we also know the health coaches that have had
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: A health scare.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And so, for instance, the woman who had the health scare, but now she's a health coach, and she helps people get their health back.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: If you're going through a health scare.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: course you're gonna gravitate to someone like that, because they're a walking, talking representation of how they walked through the fire and got to the other side. And so…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: someone like that is perfect for PR, because every interview that they do, they could say, yeah, I got to this point in my life, and the doctor said if I didn't do XYZ, I probably would die, or, you know, my health would be really bad, and I might never recover, kind of thing.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: That's being a walking, talking representation of what you do.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: That said, they could still help women that just want to lose weight and look good, but when you're a walking, talking representation of something that you have encountered yourself, people pay attention to that.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They really do. And if you're… if you're a health coach that is all about, you know.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: rocking that 20-year-old body, I… Do you… you better rock it yourself, because… Nobody's gonna believe you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What you say and how you, show up…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And whatever you're doing needs to match up.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There could be, you know, health coaches that…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So funny, let me give you an example, and funnily enough, I had a conversation with a woman today who has said she wants to work with me, so that's exciting. But we had a call today, and I gave her an example that I give everybody, because I tell them that before we ever even work together.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So, when someone's, like, wanting to be a client.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: we look at what they want to do, and then I say to them, please let me see your website and your social media.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And there's a reason why I ask for that.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I can get you lots of PR. You're gonna get seen on many platforms, magazines, digital TV, podcasts, you name it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Here's where we have to have a proper strategic plan.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: If your po- sorry, if your website and your social media accounts Do not add up.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: to what you're saying in your interviews, you are going to lose people, because they're going to be confused. They're going to listen to a podcast and go, oh my god, I really like this person. So off they go, they try and find you, they come across your website, and they're like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Is this the same person? They didn't appear like that in the interview. You've lost them now, because they are not going to spend time trying to work that out.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Because there's many more people who've spent the time to make it simple. So, it's your responsibility as a business owner to make it very simple, but then also.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: We need to know what we're gonna do with the people.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So when the people discover you.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Where are you sending them? Is it to your email list? Is it to a Facebook group? Is it to hop on a call with you? Is it to purchase a book? Is it to join your coaching? Is it to maybe come to one of your retreats? Is it to come to a masterclass? There's so many avenues! Excuse me.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: There's so many avenues on where are we sending these people, that if you don't know where you're sending them, again, the PR's a waste of time, because, oh, that was a nice podcast interview, and they get on with the day, and now you're forgotten about.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You covered two things there that are so important, and I do talk about these two things, too. One is what to do before you ever start booking yourself on podcasts, and that is to know what your end goal is, where are you sending these people, and only one link, and that link had better frickin' work.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I can't tell you how many times I get ready to publish something, and the links don't work anymore. It's like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: we just went and created all this content, and it's… I'm not putting it up if it's not going anywhere. So make sure that
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You have one link that is tied to your one big idea, and that… That it works.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then you said, about…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: people stalking you, and I call it stalking, because people do stalk you. They learn about you, and they want to know about you, but they don't want to contact you, maybe, because they're unsure. So they're going to stalk you a little bit online. And if you just hop on any old podcast.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That isn't consistent with your mission, or your…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the persona that you have, we were talking about this earlier before we started recording, when you were talking about you got invited to be on a podcast, and you went and you looked at the podcast, kudos to doing that, because, you know, you'd be surprised how many people don't look and see.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Well, I'm gonna hold my hand up, do you know what?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I feel the universe was at play there, because I'd never check. It's not something that I would do. Like, if I'm in a Facebook group, and someone says, oh, I'd love you to be on the podcast, message me, which is what this man said.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: then I would initially just go, oh, cool, send me the link to your podcast, and is there a form to fill out? And that's how I would leave that situation. But I was inclined to just check him out. I was like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I'm just gonna go say this, but don't do that.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm gonna tell you, as a podcast host, you should never do that. And the reason for that is because people do stalk you, and had you gone on that podcast and gotten blindsided by the topic.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Then… It would be out there forever!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there's not a lot you can do once you create a podcast episode with another person, because they too own that content. So.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I always recommend people, you know, do your research, don't just… don't just say yes.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: thing that comes.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: It was just… it was… I've never done that before. It's very rare I do, because I'm normally so busy talking to people, and when someone says in a group, oh yeah, message me, we'll take it from there.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: then I'm just like, cool, send me… send me your links. And I just thought, do you know what, I'm just gonna check this man out. And as soon as I checked him out, I was like, oh no.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Oh, no, we're not going there!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I've learned over… I've interviewed over 500 people so far, and I've learned that, you know, I don't… I'm not here to interview everyone.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I have told people no.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I need to research… I research people before I get them on the podcast, and… I…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you know, if you don't vibe with me, or if I feel like there's gonna be an issue, I'm just gonna say no, and it's nothing personal. You have an audience. It's not mine, but…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that person who has that podcast.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just not a good fit for you, and if you will… if you will take the time to just do a little bit of research first, it will save you headaches down the road, and really, it will save you a lot of time and energy, because
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A lot of podcasts that are looking for guests, they're not really…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They're not really all that effective, which goes back to the, you need to market your own content.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Yeah. You see, the funny thing is, when I prepare…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: pitches and press releases for my clients, obviously I have to do a very good job for them so that they're happy with it, obviously.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But, it's got to be…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: two-sided. So, as you know, people in the media are very cynical now, they're very jaded, they're being bombarded by God knows how many emails every day, because someone wants to be interviewed. So, when I am pitching my clients.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I've done my homework. And I make it so simple that they don't even have to think about it. Nine times out of 10, I'm gonna say.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I know that your community discusses XYZ,
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And my client would love to come on, and she can approach it from this angle if you're interested. Now, they don't even have to think about it, because I've already planted the seed in their head, and they're like, hello, yes.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Perfect. Send the details. All the more reasons people.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: People need someone like you, honestly, because most people don't understand
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: How to do all of that.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's so easy. It's impossible.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To… to just, like… Go down these rabbit trails that really…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They not only waste your time, they really do impact your reputation out there.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Absolutely. It's like, let me give you an example, and again, I don't want to, like.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Look, everyone's got their own feelings on this, and I'm not gonna bring my feelings into it. All I'm gonna say is, I don't use it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I'm never gonna bash people that do, but I don't use AI.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: that's just me. I have a million thoughts in my head at any given time. I have God knows how many notes to look at at any time of the day that, quite frankly.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I've got enough going on, right? So that's why I don't use it. Now.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I know for a fact, if someone, if one of my clients wants to write an article.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I will always say to them, do not use AI to write the article. And the reason being is, newspapers and magazines have programs that they'll run that through, and they will know if AI wrote that.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I say to them, You're going to be blacklisted, Because they're gonna go…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Oh, no. Then I'll get blacklisted, because they'll be like, well, she's trying to send people to us.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: thinking that it's their content, when actually they're just programming it into AI,
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I always say to clients, if you love using AI, gain some inspiration from it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: By all means. But do not put your content out
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: all written by AI. And here's the thing, I put a post out about this probably a month ago?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And I said, if you are a specialist in your field, why do you need AI to write it?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Why do you need AI to justify what you are supposed to be a specialist in?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So, I'm never gonna give someone a hard time. Everyone has their own personal preferences. If you love it, you love it. If you don't, you don't. This is not the debate I want. But what I'm saying is, whether you do video, whether you do written word.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: the content must come from your heart. It's got to be what is in the fire of your belly, what's in your heart, not what a computer's just pumped out a load of stuff because you programmed it.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And that's just my feeling on it. I know a lot of people have different feelings, and I'm not gonna bash you if you use it, that's not why I've said it. But, when you're gonna do PR, you're gonna do a lot of writing.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Even if it could just be a social media post that maybe is a bit more lengthy than what you would normally put out.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Well, is that content yours, or did you just get AI to do it? Because if you are a specialist.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: You got it in your head at any time.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: You know, there's going to be times when journalists could reach out and go, we need someone to talk on XYZ, do you know somebody?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I have contacts in America who will reach me and say, oh, we need someone to do this. Do you know anyone who discusses this?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Well, I know people, and if I know them, I will send them.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: But they are not going to be using AI to write an article. Absolutely not!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have my own thoughts on it, but we'll leave it with yours.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I know it's a very controversial topic, you know, and I know.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Everybody can do what they want to do, and I do actually think you have some very valid points about…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: using AI when you're writing content for newspapers?
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: If you're gonna run it for the big guns, there's no point setting yourself up for a fall, because you will do it. Yeah. You will do. They will run it through a program, 100%. And if they run it through a program, and you have let yourself down at the first opportunity.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: You're gonna take a long time to recover from that.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: And as we just said, people are stalking you. So it isn't just potential clients that are gonna stalk you. I've had clients
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: I've just stopped working with a lady now, but when we were working together, she was having TV shows contact her, they were finding her on LinkedIn, and it was because of content she'd already done with other media.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: So, producers, directors, journalists, they're observing what you do. So, they are looking and thinking, is this person legit? How do we know they're doing it themselves? They're going through all of that process as well, they've got their own screening system. So, you've got to be very careful.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You do, for sure.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Melanie, this has been a great conversation.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We've covered a lot.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm really looking forward to reading the book, it's coming out September 26th, and there's gonna be a special offer when it does launch, and it's 99 cents…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: It's 99 cents when it launches, and it launches at 9am Eastern Standard Time on the 26th of September.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Perfect, perfect. And we will try to get this up and out before that happens, so…
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Okay, thank you very much, thank you!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: thing, to connect with Melanie and to get access to her guide to understanding the difference between marketing and public relations, please visit www.ouaremarketing.com forward slash freebie, F-R-E-E-B-I-E,
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And be sure to check out HeartLifeCoach.com forward slash pain into purpose.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And that will get you to the Amazon link on September 26th to make a purchase for 99 cents and really support Melanie and read her chapter in the book.
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::Melanie Whittaker - Public Relations: Thank you. Thank you so much.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So welcome. Thanks, everybody, for joining us.