Breaking Free: Laura Richards on Healing, Narcissistic Abuse, and Finding Your Voice

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Oh, there!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi and welcome to the You World order, showcase podcast I'm your host, Jill Hart. And with us today is Laura, Richards. Laura is an international Podcaster, number one, bestselling author and the speaker dedicated to empowering women through her, podcast that's where I'm at and her bestselling book married to a nice guy getting over narcissistic abuse. Laura shares her personal journey of recovery from a 32 married

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: 32 year. Marriage to a narcissist. Welcome to the show Laura. It's great to have you here.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So tell us your story.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Okay, where should we start? Well, I'll kind of start at the end and then work my way back is that I didn't know that he was a narcissist, because there's something that happens when you leave abuse and you start getting clarity, and things start coming to you, and you kind of start unraveling. Your brain starts unraveling all the pieces, you know. I really thought I was getting a divorce for irreconcilable differences. I thought my husband was just difficult.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and that if I

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: could just explain myself better, he would understand which is what I was told right all through our marriage, which is something that's sort of what you're told and gaslit and manipulated into believing that you're just so hard to understand. And you're so demanding. And all these things. And it was like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I didn't think I was, because I felt like when I went in the world people understood me. And and so when we got divorced, it just. It was such a surprise to me because I was healing. I was just doing my little healing. I always say it like that, because I feel like I was having a cup of tea. And then I found out I had cancer. It was like that. That's what I felt like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: because soon after I started to find out what he was doing behind the scenes he had, you know, had this quote unquote new girlfriend who had always been there, he promised me she was just a friend, etc, and that's when I started to unravel. I'm like, Oh, I put the pieces together. I started looking things up. And I was like, Oh, he's a narcissist.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and the good thing about that is now I had a name for my pain, because, you know, as humans. We really want to be seen and heard. And when we're just in pain, and we're just

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: to be sitting there in our pain, it's hard. So when I started to understand, like he was already with somebody new. And what did that mean? Did that mean? I was garbage.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you know, because that's how I was being treated. No, that doesn't mean I'm garbage. It means they're garbage, and that's how they treat people. They just throw them away. It doesn't matter, let me get on to the next one to fill that need. And so, when I had a name for my pain, it really helped me to be able to heal.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And the podcast was not anything that I ever thought I would be doing or writing a book about my story.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: But as I started to heal. I wanted to tell people, well, I did some petty videos on social media. Let's be real. Okay. So that's what I did. Look, I'm okay with it. I still post some of them. I don't care, because it's just when you've had the narrative. I felt like all my life that I wasn't really allowed to be myself

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and say what I wanted to say, or if I did, people criticized me for it. So when I started to

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: control the narrative for myself, people were like, Oh, you know, I had a couple of people that were like, Oh, you shouldn't be talking about that. And then I had other people who were like, did you know I was in an abusive marriage? Did you know my 1st marriage, you know, ended this way, and I'm just like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: well, no, because we don't talk about that.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And I didn't understand. Why aren't we talking about this? And why are people telling me not to talk about it.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and I had such a deep need to be heard and seen again going back to that human need. And so eventually I just I went from being petty on social media to making in a business of being petty. No, just kidding

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: love it.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I mean, that's what people think sometimes. But I really just bring awareness so that people don't end up in 32 years like like I was. So that's the summary. But we can talk more about it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's it's amazing to me how prevalent that that mindset

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: was. And I say was, because, even though it does still exist now, the idea about narcissism and the pain that's caused because of the gaslighting.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You don't. You don't realize that you're okay. It's really everything around you, especially if you were raised by parents that were had maybe narcissistic tendencies, or devalued you as a human being. You kind of think that that is the normal state. And then when you find out

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there's a there's an old joke, and I'm gonna

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: tell it, but it may not come out that well, and I.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Trying to remember the name of the guy that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to give credit to him. He's a comedian

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: from a really long time ago. He's like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: my parents used to tell me, never go through the cellar door.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and I listened to them for the longest time.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But then one day I decided to open the cellar door, and I was amazed. I saw grass and trees and sunshine.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: what I felt like when I realized that it wasn't me. It was them.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There is a whole nother world outside. Once you recognize that you're sitting in the cellar.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Seriously. And the hard part is is that when you go through a quote, unquote, normal divorce, people want you to, you know, take accountability and think about what did you bring to the marriage? What did you do? And I just. I had a hard time sitting in a divorce group listening to people. Tell me what I what did you do? Wrong? Sort of thing.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and I'm sitting there thinking, what did I do wrong to be abused? And and so unpacking that I've learned there's 2 different ways to get divorce right. You're getting divorced from abuse, or you're getting divorced in quote unquote a normal way, where you maybe people are just respectful, and they break up and they go about their life irreconcilable differences, which is what I had.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And so that's hard, because we don't blame for abuse, but we do want to do some introspection and say, like, Why do I keep showing up to the circus? And why do I keep choosing the clowns? And why do the clowns keep choosing me so? There's not that blame area there. It's really what's lacking in me because there was there was that need that deep need for me to be loved a certain way.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: He swept me off my feet societally. We've been trained that way. We've been trained wrong to be swept off our feet, and oh, my gosh! Falling in love at 1st sight, and all that! Oh, my gosh! That's just a recipe for disaster. I can't hardly watch any ROM-coms, or

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I was watching sex and the city, and I was like, Oh, my God!

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: There's so many red flags.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Just the whole, you know. 2 halves make a whole thing.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes, you won't.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Be whole yourself. You be a human being, you love yourself, and somebody will come along.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Supposed to, because, you know, not everybody is supposed to have a partner.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Well, and I always thought that that was sort of a failure thing, right? That you're supposed to have a partner. But the thing that I have learned is that

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you are the love of your life.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and you have to understand that

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: because I have such a love for myself, I know boundaries, and you can't set boundaries unless you love yourself, because then you don't even think you're worthy to set a boundary or give anybody a boundary. If you don't love yourself.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I know my worth. I know my value, and so I can walk in this world and not just let people dump on me. They may dump on me, but it doesn't affect me. I can brush it off and understand. Okay, I don't need to have communication with that person all the time. I don't need to have that person in my life. That person might not be in my inner circle anymore. I might have to put them out in a little bit further, because they're not respecting me.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And that's a hard thing. When you start to heal, because you do change. I'm a completely different person than I was

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: just a little over 2 years ago, I think, about really, for now it's been 5 years when my mom passed away, actually, 5 years ago today, when my mom passed away, it was the beginning of the end of our marriage, because they have such a lack. Narcissists have such a lack of empathy that he didn't understand. Like what was the big, not what was the big deal. But

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: how long was I going to be sad. They don't know what to do with that.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And it's like, Okay, well.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you know, go stick it where the sun don't shine, because that's not okay to. It's like you are allowed to be sad for the rest of your life about your mom passing away.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And so that was that was hard. And so I feel like I'm a completely different person since, and

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: because of that.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and all the healing I've been doing, there's a lot of people who aren't in my life that were in my life before, because they don't understand

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: how I am now. I didn't have to set boundaries with them.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: They just don't want to be around that, for whatever reason. There's lots of reasons why people don't do that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know it it

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: sometimes it's a good thing, and it doesn't even mean that there's anything wrong with them, or that they're bad people. They're just not the people that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you need in your life.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Now, right?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And your relationships do change. When you, when you anytime you get divorced. I I divorced

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: someone who had a lot of problems.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and they generally come because their parents had lots of problems. And it's like, I think we talked about that.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: We may, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That it's usually the mother son. Relationship is bad.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: They don't, and they don't seem to see it that way. And of course, like for my age. My parents were born in 39 and 41. There weren't people going to therapy. And then I think about that with my ex as well. His parents were born in the thirties.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and they have major trauma as well. There's trauma in my family. There's Major trauma in their family. They didn't deal with it. They just left the situation, you know they they. And so what happens with that is you become emotionally unavailable. You can if you don't deal with it. And so with a mother, son relationship. That's how it kind of breeds.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I always say breeds, because that's how I look at it. It breeds the narcissist, the mom is the queen. And then she had some little ones, and I see it. It just kind of it's just all in the family when you look at it from the outside. When I went into their family I was like, Oh, it's like Norman Rockwell, you know. They're all sitting around the piano singing songs. And then, after a while I was like, Oh, boy, I saw behind the curtain. I was like, Okay, this is scary over here.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Strings that are chaining them to the piano, and forcing them to smile and.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes, exactly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it really is. It's like that. It's like they they have to create this

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they have to perform in order to get affection.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Oh, yeah, you have to follow the rules, and that's also. Then what happened with me and my ex is that I stopped following the rules. I started to stand up for myself. And I actually, people always say, like, what happens when you like, call them out when I'm in these narcissist groups. What if you call them out and tell them they're gaslighting you or tell them this?

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I go. Oh, well, that starts the devalue stage, and that's what happened to me. I heard the word gaslighting, and I didn't really even know what it meant. I just knew that he was trying to trick me into thinking that I didn't know something when he had said it. All these things, and that's all I really knew.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And I said to him, I said, I think you're gaslighting me, and then he gaslit me. I don't. What are you even talking about? I would never do that. I've never done that

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I was like. Did he just gaslight me? He did.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and so I really blew it off. But what that did was start the the clock on the devaluing. And so for the last 2 years of our marriage, he really ramped it up to the point where I needed to leave.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you know. And so that's what he wanted, because that's the reverse. Discard where they force your hand to want to leave. He's already been telling everybody he's in a terrible marriage. Laura's giving up on the marriage, and that really was hard, because I knew I had spent so many years in therapy and sitting in Bible studies and reading every marriage book to be the best wife I could be.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and I threw all those books away when I got divorced, because I was like it wasn't me like we talked about. Look.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I have my own responsibility. But I walked out of my 32 year marriage, knowing I did everything I could, and I was faithful, and I and I just I had integrity.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And so I'm not going to feel bad about that at all. But it was a pleasure to take all those books and throw them in the trash, and go every single line. I felt so sad for that person. God save my marriage! God save my marriage! That's all I ever said.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and it's like I didn't know I was dealing with a narcissist who didn't want to save our marriage. He just wanted me to follow the rules and be a shell of a person. Congratulations! That's what I did. And then I eventually left because I couldn't do it anymore.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, you can only put up with it so long before you realize that you need to be

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: who you're here to be, and.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Right. So who who do you want to be?

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And maybe when you're in it? You can't even think that because I couldn't. But I? The question I asked myself was, can I live like this for the rest of my life? Because if he never changes, because we can never control anybody else right? And so if I can only control myself, and I'm in therapy, or I'm reading books, or I'm trying to be the best me I can be.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and he's around me, you know, beating me down.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: So I had to say to myself.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Am I going to live like this for the rest of my life, and I finally had said in therapy, I can't do it anymore.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And she said, Well, you've been clear with him. He's either unwilling or unable, and she said that every time he's either unwilling or unable. Which do you think it is? And I'm like unwilling, and every month we would talk about it, unwilling or unable.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: until one day I was like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Matter.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because even if he's unable, it.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It just means that it's not gonna change. If he's unwilling, it's still not gonna change. So right, it's up to you. Do you want this, or are you?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Are you willing and courageous enough to say.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know. No, there's there's got to be. I'm gonna open that cellar door.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Right and see the grass on the other side. And that's the thing. It's hard when I think back, because I was so brainwashed I was so gaslit and manipulated, I was so broken as a person

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: that, thinking back, I was actually very proud of myself for saying I wanted a divorce, because I never thought.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: That's also another part of society, too, and the culture I was in, you know everybody's married forever, and I'm.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thank you.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: You may be married forever. But are you happy because some of you don't look happy? And what's the point of that? At the end of our life. There's nothing that ever happens that you don't get a certificate or something, though I was listening to somebody on Instagram or something they're like. Oh, they make everybody stand up in church, or whatever it is, you know, who's been married the longest, it's like who cares? Because

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and to the point. I don't even care.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Rather than married or not.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm not sure I would get married again at this point in my life.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: That's how I feel, and it's so. It's sort of sad to me because I love love. But I'm not opposed to love.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and a big giant diamond ring. I just kind of want that, and maybe a commitment ceremony. But no marriage.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And look, I have. I have a set of kids that are they?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They're engaged.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They have 2 kids.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't care. I.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Great.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Them both.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, they they may or may not ever get married, really don't care.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: It's a different time, and it's just like we don't have to throw everything out. But it's a different time, and it's like we don't need to check those boxes. We don't need to worry about these. What are you doing now? What's next? All those things it's like, oh, my gosh! It's such pressure, you know. I just encourage my kids with what they're doing. I'm like, are you? You know. Are you happy? Are you paying your bills? You know, it's like, Are you able to do the things you want to do? That's all that's all you need to worry about right now. Are you a good human being.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you know. Are you really? Are you fighting for the things that matter to you in this world?

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Then that's what we need to worry about, and I all of my kids and my son-in-law. They're great people, and so I just don't worry about it. And now I have a granddaughter, so I'll be encouraging her. She's too little right now. She doesn't understand when I tell her anything.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know they feel it, and they feel relationships, and they

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: get stuff. My one of my grandsons calls my husband Grandma. I'm now, and he's grandma.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, cute! That's so!

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Into a shirt that says the world's best, grandma

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: so cute. I know it's so funny. We always tried to give certain names to my parents. And then, as they heard us talking to them as parents, you know, it's like the the grandparent names kind of changed. It was just really cute.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, grandkids are like the best.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I'm learning that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So when it comes to just standing up for yourself.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What advice do you give women.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Well, I just always believe in working on your worth and value, because that really will give you some clarity now, along with that is boundaries, but

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you have to have the your. You have to know your worth and value first.st So really be thinking about you. What do you want from this world. But who are you? What do you think of yourself? What are the voices in your head when you stand in front of the mirror? That's a really great exercise, is doing some mirror work. Some people won't even look at themselves in the mirror. But to look at yourself in the mirror and say.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: you're great. You're doing a good job. I love you. You look beautiful all those things, but thinking about thinking about those words that come into your head that are they from you.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: or are they from someone else? Say, let's just say like your mother who told you? You know you're not pretty enough, or you're too fat, or whatever it is. And so thinking about those and really removing those things, grabbing those thoughts and really changing them because our brain is, is really locking these thoughts into place.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: but we don't need to believe them.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Somebody gave them to us a lot of times. It wasn't us who gave us these thoughts. And so let's put those new thoughts in there, because then you can start loving yourself just as you are does not matter to me one second, what any anyone says. You have a wrinkle, you have a this you have a that I like to put on makeup because I like to not. I'm not trying to cover anything. I'm not trying to do anything, and that's taking a lot of work. But it's little simple things

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: to love yourself, because then you can start

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: setting healthy boundaries. And that's when you're going to really start living the life that you really want to live.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm making time for yourself and.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Oh, yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I think are special.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes, I mean, it's it's like, Get a hobby. What did you? What did you like doing? You know my target audience really is, you know, 45 to 65. And so it's like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: say, your kids are grown, or pretty well self-sufficient that you don't have to be watching them. Well, so what are some things that you want to do? Can you go for a walk? Can you pick up tennis again? Can you go paint? You know we forget about ourselves, and then we're not good for anybody, and then you'll feel like you're so sad you're so depressed, and you wonder well, why? Well, you've when people say I've lost myself.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: why have you lost yourself? You're not thinking about yourself, and we've been taught that that's selfish to think about yourself.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: But it's not because we have to. We can't pour, we can't. Okay, we can pour from an empty cup. But we shouldn't be. We shouldn't be doing that, because that's not good for anybody.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No, it's not. It teaches bad habits to our kids.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes. Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And when you stay in a bad marriage you're not helping the kids.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Right, and they do say that that leaving and having 2 healthy, well, at least 2 happy parents, you know, is better for the kids. And you know, my kids were grown when we got divorced, and they actually texted me separately and said, We're proud of you because they knew I was miserable

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and then, now, now you know, we talk about it. And they're like, of course, we knew. Of course, we knew there were problems, of course, and it makes me sad. But I've apologized. They've apologized. We've all done lots of apologies, and that's all you can do. So now, thinking about. I didn't stay for the kids. I just thought I was always going to be there.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: But people who stay for the kids your kids are suffering. They just can't even put the word. They don't even have a full brain. So they don't really know what's going on. They just know something's wrong, and then you're teaching them.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: even if it's subconsciously right that I need to find something like this. That's probably what I ended up doing. Somebody who.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But I did.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah, somebody who's treating me with kind of backhanded compliments and stuff like that and feeding me breadcrumbs

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: that feels very familiar. You know what I mean. So.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then your kids repeat the patterns. So they get older. And it it doesn't even like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm friends with my ex-husband.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Hmm.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it's not like it's.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm not sad that we didn't stay married because it was like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it wasn't working, and he was doing things that we're right, totally inappropriate, right?

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: They weren't working for you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They weren't working for me, and I I recognize how I got in the situation and.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just like there's there's so many dynamics to it. Yeah. But

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I also know what my childhood was like that led to getting into that situation, which was, I was totally trying to escape and then, like jumping from one frying pan into another one.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Alright!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: finally open the cellar door and realize that there's so much more out there that doesn't involve all of this

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: not not really good stuff, and it's it doesn't make those people bad people. It's just I.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I was not a good fit for that situation, and I I really didn't have any friends at that point. So it's like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Well, you make room, you know. That was hard for me to learn. And then I had one of my coaches. She said, Okay, there's room now for the good ones to come in. You have so many new good friends. I do have a lot of friends that stayed around.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and that was a really thing that like a hard thing to unpack. It's like when I tell my story, certain people leave, and then I had one, and I was telling my friend that I was kind of crying about that, and she said, you told me your story and I didn't leave, and I said, oh, yeah, you're right, you know, it's just hard, because when it really, when you leave

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: abuse.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: even when you just get divorced, you're really starting to unravel so many things like, how did I get here?

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: And again like if it was abuse? We don't blame for that. But you go. How did I get here, you you can't think, I naively thought. I'm getting rid of the problem. Everything's gonna be great.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Absolutely not.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They get divorced. A divorce is a big deal breaking up with somebody that you've spent a lot of time with. I was married for like 13 years and lived with them for 15. Yeah, it's a long time. And then

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I started as basically a kid. I mean. I was 20 when I moved in 19 when I moved in with him, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I was 35 when I finally left. That's those are kind of pivotal pivotal years. But they're they're also

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to get to that point and be like. And I just cannot do this anymore.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But you don't have any other safety net out there.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And people don't realize that, you know.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when a woman leaves a man it really is stepping out

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: without a safety net, you're suddenly going to be on your own, and it may be the 1st time they've ever been on their own.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In their life.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah. Yeah. And when I moved into my new place it was the 1st time I'd ever lived alone, and I was

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: 56, 55

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: 1st time I'd ever lived alone, because I went from my parents house to college and had roommates, and then went to my boyfriend's house. I went to my husband's house, you know. It was like that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: It was great, and if you look at it like it's a terrible thing. Then, of course, you're gonna have a terrible time. But oh, my gosh! I'm like I can wake up, and there's no one ruining my day by 8 am. And I can just you know I loved going to get a cup of coffee and getting back in bed, watching a show for an hour, and then getting on with my day or whatever, and he would just somehow tell me I was lazy, or whatever other you know thing he would say. And so I love doing it, and just those kinds of things. That's why I love journaling so much. It's like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Write the little wins down. But you gotta be paying attention to what is a little win to me it was getting in bed with a cup of coffee, and not having anyone bother me about it.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: You know that that kind of thing, waking up and being able to journal at the dinner at the dining table, because I didn't have that peace in my house before. So to have look. I have peace now I still do it. It's been a couple of years. I still do it. I'm like, oh, it's so peaceful like right now. It's so peaceful, or I can have you know I had music blasting in the living room.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and it was a good time my neighbors weren't going to be affected, but it's like I wouldn't have been able to do that before. And it's like those kinds of you got to look at the little wins.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And even if you're still in a relationship like, I've been married for another 32 years, 30 years to

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: a wonderful man. But he gives me space and.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No, I have.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We have rituals, and they include space for both of us, and.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Great.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We have.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We live in a small house. But we each have areas that are yeah, ours. Yeah? And.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I don't try to decorate his side of the bed.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Well, and and we think that, too, that we we I don't know in society. Sometimes you think well, we got to spend every waking moment together, and that, you know, we really love each other. So okay, but you're allowed to not

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: always spend every moment with somebody like, be able to go out with your girlfriends or go take a class you want on your own, or whatever do an activity on your own. There were so many times where I wanted to. Just. I'm going to go for a walk, and he'd be. I'll go with you. It's like.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: don't want you to, you know. But it was hard when you're with somebody who's not trying to have a relationship with you and have just have conflict. That's different. But to be able to be in a healthy relationship and say, I just want to go for a walk on my own doesn't mean that we're breaking up doesn't mean that our marriage is over. I just want some alone time.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: My husband 1st came home. He was an over the road truck driver for like 28 years, and so he he also is a big person who needs space.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He goes in the garage, but he he's had to come up with things that he likes to do like. Yeah, he likes to go to the gym a few days a week.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and he likes to go to the Hot Springs, and you know I like to go to the Hot springs every once in a while, maybe once a month or so. He likes to go 3 or 4 times a week.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Wow!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you know it's like great honey. Get a membership. You go and do that. Go, and he's making friends in the community.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah, that's great.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That he has never had, and at night he likes to spend time on his computer in his chair in the living room, and we don't have a TV in the living room. We have one in our bedroom.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: so I like to go upstairs in our bedroom, and for a couple of hours. It's just me and the dogs.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: I love that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: 7 30. He brings me tea and goes back downstairs.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Oh, my gosh! That's so nice it is! It's

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: it's nice to have your own thing, so that when you come back together you like each other.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We walk together, other.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: What happened?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Almost every morning, unless it's like really treacherous outside. But.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That we have things that we do together. We have meals together, and we walk together, and in the summertime we like to go on hikes one day on the weekend, but and we we have a date, a standing date, with one of our grandsons on Thursdays, and we do that together. But.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: It's fine.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's like we can do things together. But we have things throughout the day that we do separately. And

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and we're it's not because we don't like each other. It's.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you know, we're individual human beings, and we're living our own lives.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: It's true, and you know the thing is, we have been

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: taught wrong in many ways. In society. It's like we're aspiring to something that sometimes can't even be

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: held up, you know. And so we do have to be our whole self, and really love ourselves to be able to be that, you know, if we want to be with somebody and just come together 2 whole lives coming together. And I really did not know that that was what I

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: that was a thing. Until recently, you know, I've been learning who I am because I thought oh, I haven't known who I who I am for 32 years. No, I didn't know who I was for 55 years. I didn't know who Laura was, so we're doing inner child work and talking to little Laura, and really trying to understand. How did I need to be loved? What did I want, you know? And and that's good. It's good to do that and work through that. And because then

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: that I'm just, I'm so happy at the kind of person I am.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and how I can move through this world. And that's what I always wanted. I wanted to feel okay in my skin.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I think that's the thing that most of us are looking

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: is just being okay with who we are, because we've spent so many years of our lives, believing that we weren't enough.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Yeah, yeah, it's sad.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is really sad.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have really enjoyed chatting with you, Laura.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Me, too.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: It was fun.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's the one thing you hope the audience takes away from our conversation today.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Well, I always like to tell people that their voice matters.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and so your story, your life, your hopes, your dreams. They matter.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and I just, you know I want people to remember that. And you know, don't forget about yourself, because that's what's really important. So be thinking about you and your hopes and your dreams.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: and how you want to walk through this world, because that's really important.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And people can get in touch with you or listen to your podcast how.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: My podcast is called, that's where I'm at. And they can go to. That's where i'm@podcast.com, and they can find everything there. And I actually have a journal download under Freebie so that people can get started on their journaling journey today.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome thanks for joining me.

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Laura | That's Where I'm At Podcast: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.