Catharine O’Leary – Mastering Client Attraction with Quizzes

Hi and welcome to the You World Order Showcase podcast. Today we have with us Catharine O'Leary. Catharine is a client attraction specialist and she is an expert at helping clients attract the best and release the rest. Quiz queen extraordinaire. Welcome to the podcast.

Yeah. And it's really nice to have you here.

Thank you.

Oh, thank you, Jill. It's great to.

Be here and yeah.

It's exciting to kick off.

A whole new year with.

You and I'm excited to kind of dig in and see how we can, what kind of what kind of conversion.

We're gonna have.

Yeah, me too. I love the.

Whole quiz thing because.

Quizzes are.

So powerful.

And it's a.

Great way to really understand your audience that more than that is connecting with them on a on a much deeper level than really anything else out there. So how did you get started with all of that and why quizzes?

Yeah, great question. Yeah. So I didn't grow up wanting to.

Be the quiz queen

Imagine I wanted to be the wolf of Wall Street that that so I went through Business School. I became an economist. I have a masters degree and microeconomics at least is very.

Much about the.

Consumer behavior about understanding the consumer and why they buy, you know, the red car instead of the blue car when they're exactly the same.

You know otherwise or why they pay this price over that price? Like what's triggering that or what's the lever for that? So I went into market research and consumer insights and I, you know, for the for 30 years I worked.

Corporate and worked with some pretty big brands being, you know, Apple and Adobe and Pepsi and really asked a lot of questions of a lot of people and then translated what they were telling us into something that the corporations could use. So whether that was new product innovation.

Or marketing messages or sales conversations, whatever. Whatever. That kind of information was telling us for the corporation.

And what it?

What it really gave the corporations and what the corporations do really well at.

Is understanding where their ideal clients are getting stuck or they are getting frustrated or they just wish their dreaming of and then plugging that gap and you.

Know kind of.

You know, bridging that with, you know new products or different ways to look at products or bundle them.

In in that in that format and then when I started on my entrepreneurial journey, I realized that entrepreneurs tend to, how shall I say, we tend to propose marriage on the first date.

So we ask if you have this this particular problem and then immediately go into a solution.

Where it's not really appropriate it we're not ready for that yet. You know, we haven't asked any questions. We haven't gotten into what's going on with you with your, you know, with your business or you know what have you tried or what are you really frustrated with like getting to more of a conversation around?

Let's talk about this problem that you're.

And let's see. Let's see if I have something that can help you, because I might not like it. Might not be me. It might. I might not be your ideal person to help you with this. So let's you know. Let's talk about that before I start, you know, going after your credit card numbers, right? Because that just feels it just feels a little aggressive. And I think people are a little tired of that. I think that's changing.

As we go forward that that whole you know buy this in the next 12 seconds, otherwise it's going to disappear forever. I don't. I don't think that that.

That resonates as much anymore as a let me. Let's have a conversation. Let's see if I can help you. Let's see if you like me. And if we resonate. And if we fit and then let's have a conversation about how to move forward. So it started with corporate.

And with market research.

And then as I got into my own entrepreneurial journey, I started in network marketing and I realized very quickly, Jill, that I was terrible at lead generation. It was.

Awful. It was terrible. I was horrible at.

It at Big F.

I was doing all the wrong things, paid advertising that went nowhere. You know, sales calls. Uh, after sales call that, you know, was with unqualified people. And then this, you know, kind of what I call spray and pray hoping, you know, social media.

That also yielded no results and I kind of had to figure it out and that's where I found quizzes and quiz funnels. And then with my corporate research background, I was like ohh this is perfect. This is like I can do this in my sleep.

So I started with my own quiz in my network marketing business and I tripled my leads and I.

Doubled my sales.

And then I thought, hmm, I wonder if this is a fluke, right? Cause that's where you go for first. I don't know. Is this a one off? And I started to do quizzes for my colleagues that have businesses. And when they started getting similar results, I moved out of that network marketing and I, you know, made it my mission to make sure that nobody else had to deal with the kind of lead generation.

Frustrations that I was dealing with.

And you know, we're able to start those connections and conversations from the get go with a.

You know a.

Two way conversation that a quiz can be and then it goes so much further. Even deeper than that even. But that's where it started.

Kind of. When you do quizzes.

It naturally leads to a conversation to get the answers and to really dive deep into what those answers are and the whole.

You know by now, press hard 3 copies.

That business model is dying. Thank God, it's.

Just it doesn't really.

Benefit anybody and so many people walk away from that feeling icky. Both the buyer and the seller. And you're not even really sure you made all these promises, but you're not even really sure you can fulfill them.

Because you're trying to tailor it around. Whatever they need you can do. And that's not always the case. And a lot of times it's not the case at.

All because you don't.

Really understand their business model and it's better to have, you know, a few clients that pay you a lot of money and get amazing results than a whole bunch of clients that get really crappy results and.

I totally agree, because I think the.

You know.

I think the one model the former model is very lack oriented. Very much, you know.

Your city mindset.

Gary City, mind said. It's very much. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, like, oh, my gosh. Hurry up. Or like, you know, like all this. Hurry up and wait. And this, you know, this kind of.

It's all, it's frantic. It feels very.

I'd much rather settle into a conversation like let's just sit on the couch, have a conversation. We might not be right for each other, and that's OK. I might know somebody who is right for you.

Right. Like, you know, like normal people. Like, why can't we just have normal conversations like normal people?

And then if we fit and I can help and you know like and you're interested in what we can do together awesome like those, those are the people that I want to work with, you know, all day, every day. And if it's, you know, 10 or if it's 100 or if it's 100,000 you know like you can you can build the models around that but start with the intention.

That you're going to be talking to the people that you want to be working with and helping in a deeper level. Like I think I think as we go into.

This new phase is about being authentic and going deeper than trying to promise the world and go really broad and then not deliver anything really.

Yeah, yeah. And it's easier if you just stick in one lane, then trying to be everything to everybody. And you may have a whole lot of skills out there, but.

You only really need to be an expert at one thing.

And you need to be the very best at that one thing. And you can you can make a living at it, but you get known for being that one thing.

Yeah. And I think I, I mean when people come to me and say, well, my product can serve a lot of people.

Like I can.

Serve everyone, but if you serve everyone, then you serve no one. So yes, your product might be able or your service might be able to serve a lot of people.

And if you can't narrow it down by, you know, only these people need this service, then narrow it down by the people that you want to work with. Like who, who lights you up, who is it? You know, you wake up in the morning, think, Oh my God.

This is such.

A great day because I've got this mastermind full of.

These amazing people that I'm.

Going to be.

Talking to today, like that's what you want to be building as a business.

I think that's what I definitely have gone out to do because otherwise it's just a you've just created a job for yourself and you know, we kind of left that for a reason.

And that brings up another point that I've found, and that's being exclusive. It's OK to tell people. No, I don't want to work with you.

It is because.

It's good make them want.

You more, but honestly, there are some people that you.

Just want to work with.

Well, and even in corporate, I mean I we've had to fire clients, right? We've had to fire people that like corporate corporations that were.

Just you know, just.

It was just not enough money in the world. Could, you know, account for the.

You know the bad behavior or the lack of respect or the, you know, the lack of integrity or, you know, the lack of willingness to do the work the same. The same holds true with the entrepreneurs that you're going to be dealing with or that, you know, if you're coaching, then with your clients because honestly.

Like you again, you wanna wake up thinking? Oh, my gosh, this is such a great day. I get to talk too.

Not. Oh, for the love of God, I have to go and do this. That's. You know, that's not what you want to.

Create and I think.

That the more you fill up your roster with the people that you really.

Don't want to be working with.

Then the less time that you.

Have to work with people that really do want to work with.

So don't fill your calendar up with, you know, unqualified and people that just don't fit with you.

And your business?

And that's where your quiz.

Creation really comes into.

Play is is being able to.

Filter who you're going to be talking to begin.

With and talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, it was. It's, you know, if you focus a quiz on the problem that your ideal client is having. So I call.

It the 3:00 AM question.

What is that 3:00 AM question that your clients are waking up and worrying about or fretting about or they desire. You know, I just wish I could. I don't know how I'm going to or dear Lord, how am I gonna do XYZ, whatever that is, if you can, if you can get super clear and again right. Narrow down to your ideal.

Client. What are they talking about? What's the language that they use? What are the words and help them understand at least a little bit how to solve that problem?

Then you're going to attract higher quality leads. So like you know you move from what I call I, I call it ditch lead generation like because you can you can get leads all day long but if they're not qualified then they're going to waste.

Your time so.

Ditch the lead generation and start client. You know client attraction system and a quiz.

Can help you with that client attraction system, because anyone that doesn't do your quiz.

They're probably not going to do your course right? Are they going to stick with you for eight months or, you know, 8 weeks to do to do you know, the transformation that you're offering if they're not going to stick around for two minutes to do a quiz?

You know, like the if the content of your quiz doesn't entice them or excite them or they want to learn at the end of it, how they can benefit and get a result, that's OK, right? Release, release them, release them to move on to who's, you know who's the best person to help them because it may not be.

You and that's OK.

I love it when people drop off my quiz. Love it because you know it means I'm not their person and that's fine, right? Because there are a lot of people that are my people.

And that's those are the people that I wanna spend time with on the other side of the quiz. Those are the people that I want on a in a webinar or on a call.

Because I know I can help them and they're ready for the help.

And isn't that what?

We want right at the end of the day is to connect with the people that you know that we're going to be able to.

To really serve.

Those are the people that are going.

To get the best results from what you do.

Too, because they're ready.

And they want it. They are waking up at 3:00 in the morning, wondering how am I going to solve this problem? And it's important to them to solve the problem. And when they do solve that problem, everybody around them is impacted by it.

The result and that's the.

Way that we end up changing the world.

Is because.

You impact one person and they impact the people in their periphery and it just keeps rippling out.

Yeah, I mean I love the fact that, you know, with a client attraction system similar to this, you know success is a foregone conclusion because as you.

You know, as you get more confident and as you build your courses and your business and your services in a way that as everyone comes in, you know that they're the great the, they're the right people and that you're gonna be able to help them. Like how much is your energy gonna go up? How much is your vibration gonna go up like, you know, like you're just gonna be attracting those people?

More and more, they're looking for you. They just can't find you.

So make sure that you can be found.

And a quiz gives them an opportunity to interact with you a little bit with in the privacy of their own computer screen.

They're not having to.

Face you and decide you know.

Is this OK? Yeah. Do I feel safe? They can just answer the questions and they can feel. And we all feel things when we're doing stuff and they can feel whether this is this is answer asking the right questions for them, but.

You know, not everybody.

Ask the right questions for.

The person that they're not intended to work with.

How is that for convolution?

I got it.

I think, yeah, the questions really do.

Like you can create some really neat experiences with your quiz where somebody might kind of, you know, look at one of the questions and the answers that you give might make them pause and think ohh I thought of it that way or oh, that's a that's an issue I did. Yeah. I didn't even realize.

Yeah. So you could be, you know, like showing your authority and building that know like and trust even with just the way that you ask the questions and the answers that you provide and as long as the questions aren't piece meal, as long as they're not like the kitchen sink, right. Like, you know, what are you wearing today? What Car do you drive? What's your dog's name?

Here's your financial plan. You know, like that those are the kinds of quizzes that hurt my soul. You know, the quiz questions should be a bit of a story, a bit of a, you know, a road map is stepping stones.

Doing the problem that you're having and the solution that we can talk about if it makes sense for you and you know at the end of it like hopefully you're your ideal clients you know get to their result and they think, Oh my God, Jill is like in my head, how did that happen? Of course I want to talk to her more about this because.

She obviously knows me. So you met them where they're at and they want to continue the conversation. That's them being proactive about booking with you to the next step. So it makes your life a lot easier.

I can.

On the back end.

I can think of two quizzes that I've taken over the last year and these were quizzes I took months ago, but they have stuck with me and one of them. I'm just going to plug out, right? Her name is Kathy Reggiani. I don't know if you've met her or run into her, but if you haven't, you definitely ought to connect with her. She does the Dragon quiz.

And it's about.

How you?

Handle adversity.

Taming your dragon, your inner dragon, and she has different names for the Dragons, and they have different characteristics. And it was.

It was a really.

Good quiz and it was very accurate. But when I got the answer I was like, Yep totally relate to this. And I probably interviewed Kathy back in August of last year. So I remember the quiz. I remember the results of the quiz Fire Dragon.

So that that.

Kind of detail. When you're creating a quiz, if you could make it fun and interesting and.

And give some give people your ideal clients will be attracted to it because there'll be something that hooks them that and stays with them even if they don't.

Work with you right now. They will.

Work with you eventually because they'll remember you.

Yeah. And I call, I call that kind of creativity of that process of like, you know, coming up with the names of the outcomes or the segments, the different Dragons in the in this case it's your, it's your chance to be like JK Rowling, right? So Harry Potter, author, right. You know, everyone, all the all the witches and Wizards that go to Hogwarts.

Get put into houses.

By the sorting.

Hat right. So based on their characteristics, they go into Gryffindor huffle puffer, you know, Raven flower slither and you get to do the same thing with your quiz. You get to create the houses. So in this case, Kathy created the Dragon.

Right, you can create what color you are or you can create what Game of Thrones character you are. You know if it, if that's what works with your business, but you get you can, you know like have some fun with it. Put in your personality right like it. You know, the more fun it is, the more you're going to attract that ideal client.

Because the more fun you're having.

Exactly. It just.

Quizzes are amazing.

So how do how do?

People work with you. What do you?

What do you do for them?

How do you help them?

Great question. So I you know, I help in particular coaches and podcasters and broadcasters, those people that are looking for audiences or have an audience that that maybe haven't captured on an e-mail list yet. You know, I helped them build their, their client, their client attraction system, and whether that's through course.

Or through done with you or done for you. There's lots of different options but yeah, I mean it's all about.

You know, really making sure that you are strategically thinking about your ideal client using those questions in a way that builds your authority. They're right. Right ways to ask questions and kind of, you know, wonky ways that will turn people off. So we talk about that creating your houses, creating your, your, you know, your Dragons or your.

You know Gryffindor.

Whatever. And then and then.

Moving on past that, how do you use your quiz?

After the fact cause you.

Got a lot.

Of data now and you've got a lot of insights and you can Co create with your ideal clients. Maybe there is something in the information that points to a new service or a new product or a different messaging way or a different bundle of things.

Maybe you, you know, see a mastermind or a pop up class of some sort. So we kind of take it from the you know, the client attractions top of funnel or the you know like.

Let's make sure that we're collecting your ideal clients and connecting with them and converting them and then let's make them loyal raving fans so that your lifetime value of your clients move up and your revenue moves up and you can help more people.

Encourage people to form groups and put the.

Push people from the quiz into a group. Or are you more along the lines of get them on?

The phone where?

Where do you fall in there? Or does?

It really depend.

You know what it kind of depends on your offer and where you want. So. So all the best Rd. maps always start at the end like you got to know where you're leading people. So you know before you ever start a quiz you kind of want to know where you're leading them. Are you leading them to Accorsi or you know maybe depending on how they answer some people get.

A course and some people get a call.

You know, whatever that is, or some people get the Facebook group it kinda you know you can tailor it to whatever your marketing calendar is.

As well as what you're you know how you want to connect with people on those first, you know, the first time that you're really connecting with them. So if that's a sales call, that's awesome. If that's a Facebook group, you know there's no right or wrong answer, just as long as it makes sense for the flow of the conversation.

Like it's, you know, it's.

It's a natural progression from, hey, this is, you know, these are your quiz results. This is the dragon you are, you know, these are some of the challenges that you have. Here's some solutions if you want to find out more about solutions, go to what makes sense for that end of that sentence. Like, is it the Facebook group or whatever group is it?

A mastermind? Is it an application like you know it can be anything and that's why I love quizzes because it can really it. You can change it depending on what your calendar is, but you can also, you know, make sure that it's tailored, you know uniquely to your business.

And you help people set them up because the tech end of quiz quizzes are like they're so cool. But the tech end of it is really kind of it can be complicated.

It can be.

It's almost like anything else, it can be easy too. So there are ways that you can you can use free forms and so on to do it. What I don't suggest is using like a Google form or something because it then it looks like a mortgage application that nobody wants.

Fill out, but there are ways that you can do it, but yes, we I have a, A partner that I work with to get the quizzes up on a platform and then you know they have some ways that you know you can share your quiz virally on social media, but it collects all the information, integrates with your CRM and we do help with that.

And so because it integrates with your CRM, depending on what the answers are it segregates out to what e-mail sequences they get which is.

Correct. So depending.

That's the part that I always get stuck on.

Well, if you are a green dragon, then you get the Green Dragon e-mail nurture sequence potentially, and then I know forever more that you're a green dragon. So I know that if I'm promoting something that's really good for green Dragons, then I want to make sure that you get that promotion.

If you're a red dragon, you know similar things. You have it an e-mail nurture sequence that goes to red Dragons and then red Dragons are forever tagged in your CRM, you know like again you can make it overly complicated. I suggest you know between 3:00 and 5:00, probably 5 is a lot.

Of these segments to really concentrate on because you want it to be almost like you're branding like you're.

When you meet somebody that's also done the quiz, you can kind of have that conversation. Are you a green dragon or are you red dragon like you don't want 150 different colours of Dragons because.

Nobody's gonna remember. So don't make it.

Yeah, but it's an identifying thing too. When you get your group together, then they're people own who they are.

Yeah, and that's your segmentation on steroids right there. That's when you're like, you know, like people are like, well, I only talk to green Dragons. I want my green Dragons in my group, you know, or, you know, whatever it is.

But, but that's where you can have a lot of fun on the back end with the customization and personalization, which is just going to be even more important coming up, you know, people are kind of done with the mass marketing cookie cutter conversations. They want to be heard and you know, like, so do I.

Right. I wanna be heard. I wanna be seen. I wanna be, you know, understood. And the more that you know somebody reaches out to me and says hey Catharine like I understand you know you're a green dragon and you know here are some of the challenges that you might be going through and I can help you with those if you'd like.

To you know, maybe hop on this call or hop on this webinar or I have a JV partner that you know might be perfect for you.

I want to hear that from my point of view, not from I have 250,000 people on my list and everyone gets the exact same message because that I think those days are numbered, if you will.

Yeah, I agree with that a lot and it's not so much about quantity versus quality. You know, if you can really have good quality people in your community and you know I'm a big fan, I think of Facebook groups because it if they're active and if you're.

You know.

If you're calling.

Out your green Dragons and your red Dragons.

And the yellow dragon and the orange Dragons, you know.

Then then they feel like you're talking directly to them, and not just to the whole group, and they're just like another.

Another person in the group then it's.

Then, because in impersonal and we don't want impersonal, I think after the pandemic people are like, I want connections with human beings and it can be over the Internet. But it needs to be real. I need to feel it. Yeah.

And it needs to be a little lighter. I think, you know, like it like, I think we're done.

With the heavy.

The heavy handedness, the heavy pushing, the and.

OK.

I think that people are done with the heavy sales conversations, right? Like I would rather sit down and say, you know what, I can help and let's talk about how we can help each other as an offer as opposed to, oh, I have a sales conversation coming up like, I mean, you know, I think that the used car salesman.

Analogy is you know that's also.

A dying breed a little bit.

Yeah, because you can buy your car online now.

Yeah, exactly.

You don't have to talk to them at all. I used to equate buying cars, and I hated buying cars with, like, opening my underwear drawer and letting a perfect stranger rifle through it.

I just I can't handle the.

Always to me.

I can't handle the negotiation like I just don't want to like. Just tell me what the price is. Just give me a fair price. I don't want to haggle.

Right. Like I don't have time and I just don't like.

It's not a game, it's.

Not a fun game for me.

Has been game for me either and I'm not one of.

Those people that you know.

Is connected to my.

Vehicle in my identity, it's a car.

Yeah, I'm the same.

Way I don't even care what color it is, just it doesn't work. OK good. That's all.

I really need.

When I get in it, will it start and if it and if it's going to have problems, I want it to tell me ahead of time.

I have a smart car now it's like.

It tells me when it needs gas. It tells me when the tires are low. It tells me everything.

Yeah, you know.

We had this rental car one time with a little coffee symbol in it.

And my husband.

He's a truck driver and.

He's he likes to drive like this little sign. Maybe you need some coffee.

That's actually pretty.

Drowsy driving.

Good. I like that.

I think I do need coffee. I think I need to pull over now and get.

Coffee, this is awesome.

We laughed and laughed.

That could be an interesting quiz.

You know what do you.

Need what does your car need to tell you? Does it need to stop and tell you that you need coffee?

Or a nap.

Maybe you need a nap. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. I wonder what the quiz was that went before that. That feature was invented because I'm sure there were quizzes out there.

Was surveys and audience testing, and because they don't do anything that they don't know that they're going to get a return on their investment.

There were surveys. Yeah, there were.

Corporate does not, or at least.

Not usually. Sometimes they do, sometimes they do, and they get away with it, and sometimes they do and they don't get away with it. But they, you know, the bigger corporations spend a bucket load of money on consumer insights.

And then when they get they do something stupid that there, there are some beer people that have done some stupid things.

Because they didn't.

Really know their audience.

I think we all know what.

I'm talking about.

And that.

It got through to actually the promotion level and then their audience made them very aware that they were not those people.

And it doesn't matter what kind of people they are, because it your audience is your audience. They have their own desires and wants and needs, and you need to serve that no matter what your audience is. But if you take what you're doing.

For your specific audience and you say hey.

Let's just like.

Throw you to the.

Side and we'll aim at this whole other group of people that are very antithetical to what you value and you hold in alignment with yourselves and that's going to work out really great.

Well, this is, I mean this goes towards making sure that you know you understand your ideal client and sticking to it right because if you go really broad and you go for everyone, then you're going to end up talking to people that go, what are you saying like what are you talking about? This is so not me and you have.

Opposite effect on your brand, which is I would never work with that person because they're like obviously don't know what they're talking about because they're talking to me about this, this and this, and I have no business with that.

UM.

So you really.

You do you?

Need to make sure that you know you understand your ideal client and stick to that and don't try to be all things to all people because that's just never gonna work.

Yeah. And if you change and it's OK to change, but don't try to change it with the same brand unless you're really.

Ready to get hammered? Cause you will get hammered. Your clients will be like.

No, that's not what we signed up.

I know that you.

Offer a free training how to create your quiz fast and free.

Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Yeah. So this is as we talked about, you know we can over complicate things. So I made it my mission because I do believe that everyone should be talking about client attraction as opposed to lead.

Action I wanted to create a way for people to actually get their first quiz done and do it for free, including the programming. So it's all it's all explained and we go through in a four episode podcast actually where we go through and we take you through.

You know why quizzes how they work, but also how to create your quiz hook? How to create your questions, how to create your outcomes or your houses and how to get it all programmed and launched. And then what to do next. So that's I wanted to release that as a.

Say, you know like, let's just get, let's just get started. Get your first one out there. It won't be your last. You'll you know, you'll probably create many. And I hope you do. And. And. And I just wanted to help get people, you know, out there launched and getting some leads so they can see how it works and have some fun with it

That sounds really.

Fun and it is a podcast, so if you just go to your free quiz dot.

Com you can.

You can listen to the episodes and.

Catharine is.

Also a podcaster and she does have her own podcast that she does. It's called Kick start, The Conversation Podcast, which I'm really excited to go listen to. Do you want to talk just a minute about that too?

Yeah, this kickstart the conversation I started to it's all about leads lists and leverage. So leveraging relationships. So it's really you know we talked to entrepreneurs that are.

Building their e-mail lists or their, you know, their communities in different ways, innovative ways, what's working, what's not, how to leverage your lists. So now what you know now I've got a list. Now, what do I do with it? And then you know how to leverage your list into and monetize it, right. So how to get really good partners, how to.

How to maybe get some affiliate fees and so on out of it all, while still being true to, you know, having that community and being respectful and being authentic and, you know, putting your clients first. So how can you help?

Help serve them even more. So we talked about all of that and it somehow almost always comes back to a quiz. I mean, I don't know how that happens, but it usually happens. But it's a lot of fun. I'm I. I'm enjoying doing it. It's almost a year old now, so we've.

We've had a lot of fun doing it.

That's awesome. I just love podcasts.

My own but.

They're just, they're so impactful and they help people on so many different levels that it's. It's exciting. So what's the one thing you want to leave the audience with today, Catharine?

I think.

I think the one thing I'd like to leave you with is ask. Don't guess.

So really, you know, get curious, ask, ask the questions, right? The curiosity is never going to hurt you, and it could double your leads and double your sales. So get. Yeah, just get curious. Ask, ask a lot of questions.

Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me today. This has been really fun.

Yes, thank you for having.

Me. I had a lot of fun too.